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REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matter of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan. 2 Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3 7:00 p.m. 4 ** ** ** 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Good evening and 6 welcome to the July 10th, 2012 Zoning Board 7 of Appeals meeting for the City of Novi. 8 Will you all rise for the 9 Pledge of Allegiance. 10 (Pledge of Allegiance was recited.) 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will 12 now go over some of the rules for a public 13 hearing, and the format that this meeting 14 will be conducted. 15 Copies of the agenda are in 16 the back of the room for those of you who 17 wish to get a copy and follow today's 18 meeting. 19 Please everybody turn off your 20 cellphones, as well as pagers, so that we are 21 not disrupted during the meeting. 22 Also when your case is called, 23 please come to the podium and state your 24 name, and also spell your name for our 25 reporter, so that we can have the proper
4 1 spelling of your names. 2 You will be given five minutes 3 to present your case and extensions are -- 4 may be granted at the discretion of the 5 Chair. 6 The public will be asked if 7 they wish to make any comments on any 8 particular case. At that point, they will be 9 asked to comment on the case that is before 10 the board. 11 Next is the approval of our 12 agenda. Are there any corrections? 13 MR. SANGHVI: Roll call. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Strike that. Can we 15 get a roll call, Ms. Pawlowski. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: We actually have 17 one change to the agenda. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do? 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Yes. Case No. 20 12-021, at 44275 Twelve Mile. It was 21 advertised in the newspaper, and they have 22 asked to be postponed until the August 14th 23 meeting, or to be tabled. 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Case No. 5 on the 25 agenda tonight?
5 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: It did not make it 2 to the agenda. 3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Oh, it did not make 4 it to the agenda? 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No. 6 MR. SANGHVI: It's not there. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: It's not there, 8 okay. 9 We get a roll call, please. 10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 11 MR. GEDEON: Here. 12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 13 (No audible response.) 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 15 MR. GHANNAM: Here. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Present. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 19 MS. KRIEGER: Here. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 21 MR. SANGHVI: Here. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 23 MS. SKELCY: Here. 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Now, do we have any 25 further changes to the agenda other than what
6 1 was stated earlier? 2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No. 3 MR. SANGHVI: Motion. 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion to approve 5 the agenda as stated? 6 MR. SANGHVI: So moved. 7 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion 9 has been made and seconded, all in favor say 10 aye. 11 THE BOARD: Aye. 12 CHAIRMAN IBE: All against? 13 (No audible responses.) 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the 15 motion is approved and the agenda accepted. 16 Now I'm going to go to the 17 city and ask if there is any comment from the 18 city at this time? 19 MR. BOULARD: No. 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: What about the 21 minutes from the last meeting from June 12, 22 2012? Do we have any changes? 23 (No audible responses.) 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I 25 get a motion?
7 1 MR. SANGHVI: So moved to accept 2 the minutes. 3 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion has been made 5 and seconded. All in favor say aye. 6 THE BOARD: Aye. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: All opposed? 8 (No audible response.) 9 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the 10 minutes are hereby adopted. 11 Now, move to our public 12 remarks. The public remarks is limited to 13 matters that are just for public remarks and 14 not to any particular case before the board 15 at this time. 16 Do anyone in the public have 17 any public remarks? 18 MR. PHILLIPS: I just didn't 19 understand -- a question. Would there be an 20 opportunity at the end of the meeting to ask 21 for some guidance from the council? 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: On which -- 23 MR. VALENTI: It's an extenuating 24 circumstance. I'm just asking for -- I'm 25 Nick Valenti, 27925 Summit, for the record.
8 1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Maybe at the end of 2 the meeting, sir, we may come to that. 3 MR. VALENTI: Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Very 5 well, sir. 6 We will now move onto our 7 first case. 8 On the agenda for today is 9 Case No. 12-022, 39500 Ten Mile Road. 10 Will the applicant come to the 11 podium, state your name and spell your name 12 for the record. 13 If you're not an attorney, 14 please raise your right hand and be sworn in 15 by Madam Secretary. 16 MR. PHILLIPS: I am not an 17 attorney. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Could 19 you state your name first and spell it. 20 MR. PHILLIPS: Sure. My name is 21 Ed Phillips, P-h-i-l-l-i-p-s, owner of 22 Phillips Sign and Lighting, 40920 Executive 23 Drive, Harrison Township. 24 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-022, 25 do you swear to tell the truth in this case?
9 1 MR. PHILLIPS: I do. 2 I have a handout. May I hand 3 it out? 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sure. 5 MR. PHILLIPS: I am here this 6 evening representing the Ten Haggerty medical 7 facility located at 39500 West Ten Mile Road. 8 Our hardship is lack of 9 adequate building identification due to 10 topography and building setback. 11 We are a medical facility 12 specializing in geriatrics. Not a day passes 13 that we are not reminded how difficult we are 14 to locate. 15 Our building entrance is as 16 shown on page four, if you would be so kind 17 as to look at this first page there, 388 feet 18 from the closest curb on Ten Mile. 19 We have a Jaguar parking lot 20 directly in front of most of our building, 21 which is again, depicted there, with a very 22 well maintained -- I mean, it is a nice 23 looking parking lot. It's very attractive. 24 The whole point is, we can't find our 25 building.
10 1 Page four depicts a few 2 additional challenges. Not the bend in the 3 sidewalk. Again, we are behind it. It 4 doesn't seem as severe here as when you're 5 standing in person there. It's quite a 6 little curb, but we are to the east of it. 7 The driveway is where our sign 8 is located at the moment. And the signs 9 that -- again, we are not pointing fingers, 10 we are just kind of trying to show you that 11 we just want to be on equal footing with the 12 rest or our neighbors there. 13 The credit union sign is 14 actually 155 inches behind the sidewalk. The 15 Novi sign is 53 inches in front of the 16 sidewalk, as I'm sure you're all aware. And 17 the Jaguar sign is 112 inches. 18 The next page shows where our 19 sign -- those trees, this is a little big -- 20 this is a Google image. As you can see by 21 the Google image, that the credit union 22 hasn't even been built yet. So this picture 23 isn't the most current thing. 24 Those trees are gone. But 25 it's still our sign sits 100 -- our sign sits
11 1 well back. It's like where that little line 2 is where our sign is. 3 Please note per our package, 4 we are requesting 120-inch from the sidewalk 5 or 70 feet from the center line. 6 Our patients are older and 7 often challenged with traffic and directions. 8 We know our request before you tonight will 9 help guide our patients safely to our 10 facility. 11 Wrapping up, I believes pages 12 one and two show -- demonstrate how well 13 moving our sign ten feet behind the sidewalk 14 will be very much in keeping with the 15 existing signage surrounding us. 16 Your approval this evening 17 will be appreciated by the owners, doctors 18 and especially our patients. 19 If you look closely at page 20 one, you can see the -- obviously the credit 21 union sign, you can see the Novi sign, the 22 Jaguar. 23 That yellow tape that you see 24 to the right of that for lease sign is 25 actually the location of our sign. So it
12 1 puts it right in keeping with both our 2 neighbors on the other side of us. 3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Could you please put 4 this over by the overhead so we can -- for 5 the benefit of those watching at home, so 6 they can at least follow our presentation. 7 MR. PHILLIPS: This really doesn't 8 demonstrate. It's pretty hard to see up 9 there. This is the credit union sign right 10 here (indicating), this is the Jaguar sign 11 right here (indicating). 12 I don't know that you guys can 13 make this out at all, but there is some 14 yellow tape here. It's a stake that shows 15 our proposed 10 foot setback. 16 All we are doing is looking to 17 move our sign 30 feet west and forward, so 18 that it has a chance. 19 Again, we do realize that our 20 sign, by it's very nature, is not a sign 21 that's to be read. It's an address. That's 22 basically what we want on the street. 23 We tell people it's 32500 24 (sic.) is that right? That's what they look 25 for. Our patients are told to look for a
13 1 blue sign with an address. 2 Once they pull in the 3 driveway, and they stop, there is plenty of 4 room there for them to kind of look at the 5 sign to see if the doctor they're looking for 6 is on that sign. 7 So we didn't expect people to 8 be reading those doctors' names. We want 9 that address legible. That's really what 10 this is about. 11 Okay. So that's -- I can 12 answer any questions. 13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. 14 MR. PHILLIPS: You're welcome. 15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is there anyone in 16 the public who would like to make any 17 comments regarding the presentation made by 18 the applicant? Please raise your hand. 19 (No audible responses.) 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 21 go through and ask if the city has any 22 comments regarding -- 23 MS. SAARELA: No. 24 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 25 Happy to stand by for questions.
14 1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank 2 you. I will now ask our Madam Secretary to 3 read into the record any correspondence 4 received for this case. 5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-022, 6 29 were mailed, four returned, zero response. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will 8 now open it up to the Board for discussion. 9 Yes, Ms. Skelcy. 10 MS. SKELCY: Mr. Phillips, so that 11 yellow tape is where the proposed sign is? 12 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. 13 MS. SKELCY: When I went out and 14 looked at it, it looked even with the Jaguar 15 sign, so I would have no problem agreeing to 16 a vote in favor of the variance. Thank you. 17 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes? 19 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 Now I did -- as a matter of fact, I didn't 21 know you had a building back inside for which 22 you want the sign until I went looking for 23 it. 24 I understand your problem that 25 you need some recognition on the street
15 1 closer for people to be able to read. 2 I have no problem with 3 relocating your sign, but I'm not so sure 4 whether you need as big a sign as you want 5 for the location of your sign. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes? 7 MR. GHANNAM: I just have a couple 8 of questions for the city. The current sign 9 where it's placed, is that -- did that 10 require a variance or was that adequate for 11 the given setback? 12 MR. BOULARD: The allowable size of 13 the sign is based on the setback of the 14 centerline of the road. The existing sign is 15 compliant in its location. 16 Unless I'm mistaken, the 17 petitioner intends to take that sign and move 18 it up as opposed to creating a new slightly 19 smaller sign. 20 MR. GHANNAM: So they need two 21 variances here, for size and setback, 22 correct? 23 MR. BOULARD: Well, it would be 24 really one or the other. They're allowed to 25 have the sign closer. It just would
16 1 typically be limited in size. 2 So the variance for the larger 3 size would take care of that. 4 MR. GHANNAM: It is going to be the 5 exact same sign that's going to be simply 6 moved forward? 7 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. 8 MR. GHANNAM: Given the 9 circumstances, I also don't have any problems 10 with it, sir. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member 12 Gedeon? 13 MR. GEDEON: I'm all set. Thank 14 you. 15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you 16 all set? 17 MR. SANGHVI: I'm all set. Thank 18 you. 19 CHAIRMAN IBE: In the absence of 20 any further discussion, we'll entertain a 21 motion. 22 MR. GHANNAM: In Case No, 12-022 23 for 39500 Ten Mile, I move to grant the sign 24 variance as requested, based on circumstances 25 or features that are exceptional and unique
17 1 to this property and do not result from 2 conditions that exist generally in the city, 3 or that are self-created. 4 The failure to grant relief 5 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of 6 property and will result in substantially 7 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 8 attain a higher economic or financial return. 9 A grant of relief will not 10 result in a use of structure that is 11 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 12 with adjacent surrounding properties and will 13 result in substantial justice being done to 14 both the applicant and adjacent properties, 15 and it's not inconsistent with the spirit of 16 the ordinance. 17 MS. SKELCY: Second. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a 19 motion and a second, do we have any further 20 conversation to carry on with this matter? 21 (No audible responses.) 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 23 ask Madam Angela to please call the roll. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 25 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
18 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 2 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 6 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 8 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 10 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 12 to zero. 13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations, 14 sir. 15 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you. Have a 16 good evening. 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: That brings us to 18 our second case for today. Case No. 12-026, 19 2296 Austin Drive. 20 Will the applicant please come 21 to the podium, and just as a reminder, please 22 state your full name and spell your last 23 name, especially, for the record. 24 If you are not an attorney, 25 please raise your right hand and be sworn in
19 1 by Madam Secretary. Thank you. 2 MR. SISKONEN: I am Richard 3 Siskonen. 4 MS. SAARELA: We should mention to 5 the applicants that we don't have a full 6 board, so that if they wanted to table until 7 we have a full board, they have the option. 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank 9 you for that reminder. 10 Just real quickly, for the 11 applicant at the podium, as well as those in 12 the room, we do not have a full board today. 13 So if anyone -- any decision that is made 14 today will be final. 15 If you feel you want to have a 16 full board to hear your case, you are -- at 17 your discretion, you may elect to table your 18 case for the next available meeting date, 19 which will be in the month of August, August 20 14th. 21 However, if you wish to 22 proceed today, we do have a quorum, which 23 means that any decision we make will be 24 final. 25 So if you wish to go forward
20 1 with your case -- 2 MR. SISKONEN: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Go 4 ahead, speak your full name again. 5 MR. HEAD: My name is Brian Head, 6 H-e-a-d. I'm with All Seasons Enclosures. 7 This is our customer. 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you spell your 9 name, please. Spell your last name. 10 MR. HEAD: H-e-a-d. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you 12 an attorney, sir? 13 MR. HEAD: No. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Please raise your 15 right hand and be sworn in. 16 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-026, 17 for 2296 Austin Drive, do you swear to tell 18 the truth in this case? 19 MR. HEAD: Yes, ma'am. 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Go ahead, sir. 21 MR. HEAD: As you can see on this 22 mortgage survey, what we are proposing is the 23 addition back here, which is only 10 feet 24 out, and 19 foot wide. 25 It looks like, per the
21 1 Township regulations, that we need 35 feet 2 from the property line, okay. 3 Our hardship lies in due to 4 the way that this property line is angled, 5 how it comes in, this gives us only 33 and a 6 half feet. 7 As you can see, they have half 8 of lot 92, all of lot 93, but where the 9 property lines falls in Shawood Lake, it's 10 not normal. 11 As you can see toward the 12 front, which is kind of rounded, if it was 13 like that, then there would be no problem 14 whatsoever. 15 They're retired, and she is 16 allergic to the sun and they have a heavy 17 mosquito problem there. She's also allergic 18 to bug bites and things like that. 19 She wants to enjoy the family, 20 but it's kind of tough. All they have is a 21 deck right now, and they want to bring the 22 outside in, have a nice little enclosure to 23 sit and enjoy the property. 24 So it's basically what we have 25 is we are looking for about a foot and a
22 1 half, as far as the way the property lies is 2 why we're here. 3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. 4 Is there anybody in the public 5 who would like to make any comments regarding 6 this particular case at this time? 7 (No audible responses.) 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 9 ask our secretary to please read into the 10 record any correspondence received. 11 MS. KRIEGER: For ZBA Case No. 12 12-026, 36 were mailed, five returned, one 13 approval. The approval is from Jerry and 14 Patricia Gibson on Shawood. They just 15 circled approval. Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Madam 17 Secretary. 18 I will now turn to the city 19 for any comment that they may have regarding 20 this particular case. 21 MS. SAARELA: We have none. 22 MR. BOULARD: If I might ask one 23 question of the petitioner. 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, please. 25 MR. BOULARD: One option would be
23 1 to install the proposed sunroom along the 2 north side of the house, which would then 3 likely not require a variance. 4 Can you outline for us the 5 reasons that you chose to put the sunroom on 6 the back of the house. 7 MR. HEAD: As you can see, this is 8 looking over the lake and looking over the 9 large part of the property where the children 10 and family come to play and gather and things 11 like that, so this is so she can also look 12 over children and see what's going on, 13 swimming and safety. And so it's just more 14 of making sure the family is okay and 15 enjoying the property the way it views the 16 lake. 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 18 Now we will open it up to the 19 board for discussion. Yes. 20 MS. SKELCY: I actually live over 21 by you folks. I walk my little Yorkie down 22 Austin all the time. So I know how the lake 23 kind of interferes with the property lines, 24 and that it's not really a self-created 25 problem and it's really the function or
24 1 caused by the lake location and how it abuts 2 up to the property. So I will have no 3 problem approving a motion for the variance. 4 Thank you. 5 MR. HEAD: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member 7 Krieger. 8 MS. KRIEGER: I have a question, 9 Mr. Siskonen. Are you a member of CERT? 10 MR. SISKONEN: A member of what? 11 MS. KRIEGER: CERT, Community 12 Emergency Response Team? 13 MR. SISKONEN: No. 14 MS. KRIEGER: I thought I saw you 15 from somewhere before. 16 MR. SISKONEN: I'm a greeter at 17 Meijer, so you might have seen me in there. 18 MS. KRIEGER: I'm there all the 19 time, too. 20 MR. SISKONEN: I see a lot of 21 people in there. A lot of familiar faces. 22 MR. HEAD: He's also retired from 23 the State. 24 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Also, as 25 stated by the petitioner, that -- for those
25 1 reasons, the enclosure in the back, because 2 of the mosquitoes and being able to visualize 3 the whole side of the lake. 4 I have no further questions. 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 6 Krieger. 7 Do we have any additional 8 comments or questions for the applicant? 9 Yes. 10 MR. GHANNAM: Just briefly, I also 11 have no problems with it. To me, it seems 12 like in the most logical place. 13 This is really a technical 14 violation because of the outline of the lot, 15 based on the lake. I mean, this is really 16 what the board is used for to try to help out 17 someone for these technical violations. 18 Again, I have no problem with it. 19 MR. SISKONEN: Thank you. 20 MR. HEAD: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Just real quickly, I 22 do not have any problem with this as well. 23 I think, if anything at all, 24 the neighbors might actually enjoy a better 25 view, that they probably wouldn't have had.
26 1 And it will not have any adverse impact on 2 any surrounding neighbors. 3 MR. HEAD: Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no further 5 conversation of this case, I will entertain a 6 motion. 7 MS. SKELCY: In the case of 12-026 8 for the address of 2296 Austin Drive, I move 9 that we approve the -- that we grant the 10 variance for a 33 and a half foot setback as 11 opposed to the required 35 foot setback. 12 This is based on the fact that 13 there are unique circumstances and physical 14 conditions of the property, such as the 15 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water, 16 topography and other similar conditions. And 17 the need for the variance is not due to the 18 applicant's personal or economic difficulty. 19 The need is not self-created. 20 Strict compliance with 21 regulations governing the area, setback, 22 frontage, height, bulk, density and other 23 dimensional requirements will not 24 unreasonably prevent -- would unreasonably 25 prevent the property owner from using the
27 1 property for a permitted purpose and will 2 render conformity to these regulations 3 unnecessarily burdensome. 4 The requested variance is the 5 minimum variance necessary to do substantial 6 justice to the applicant, as well as to other 7 property owners in the district. 8 And the requested variance 9 will not cause an adverse impact on 10 surrounding property, property values or the 11 use and enjoyment of the property in the 12 neighborhood or the zoning district. 13 MR. GHANNAM: Second. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a 15 motion and a second, do we have any further 16 conversation on this case? 17 (No audible responses.) 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please 19 call the roll. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 21 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 23 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
28 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 2 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 4 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 6 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 8 to zero. 9 MR. HEAD: Thank you so much. 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations. 11 Thank you. 12 That brings us to our next 13 case. Case No. 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile 14 Road. 15 Will the applicant please come 16 to the podium. Please, when you get to the 17 podium, state your full name and spell your 18 last name for the record. 19 If you don't have an attorney, 20 please raise your right hand and be sworn in 21 You may proceed. 22 MR. MILLER: My name is Roger 23 Miller, owner of Spectrum Signs and Designs 24 in Dearborn, Michigan, 25217 Michigan Avenue. 25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Did you spell your
29 1 last name? 2 MR. MILLER: Yes, M-i-l-l-e-r. 3 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027, 4 on 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear or 5 affirm to tell the truth in this case? 6 MR. MILLER: Yes, I do. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 8 MR. MILLER: Yes. The property 9 owner is requesting a variance for additional 10 wall signage on the east and west upper sides 11 of the building for the urgent care facility 12 that is a tenant in the building. 13 The building with its 14 positioning and setback does not have any 15 other way to show the existence of these 16 medical services that are available under 17 emergency satiations, and the placement on 18 the building is to cover both directions of 19 Twelve Mile, and up high enough on the 20 building so it can be seen over the trees 21 that are on the properties on either side of 22 this building. 23 And the request is the -- 24 under the ordinance it's only allowed to have 25 one wall sign and one ground sign, which it
30 1 has already, so this would be additional wall 2 signs, and also with the sizing, it is ten 3 square feet larger than what's allowed in the 4 ordinance. 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Is there 6 anyone in the public who would like to make a 7 comment regarding this particular case at 8 this time? 9 (No audible responses.) 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 11 ask if we have comments from the city? 12 MS. SAARELA: I have none. 13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question, if 14 I may. There is an existing ground sign 15 which has the urgent care notice on that. 16 Was there any thought given to 17 dedicating a larger portion of that sign as 18 opposed to putting additional signs on the 19 building? 20 MR. MILLER: Well, that sign is 21 fairly visible as it is, but it really -- for 22 people driving until they're right in front 23 of the property, it's not as visible and it 24 is -- and that sign even being larger is not 25 easily visible on the eastbound traffic
31 1 because of the center median that's there. 2 So I don't think it would help 3 the situation by just increasing the size 4 there on the monument sign. 5 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN IBE: I will ask our 7 secretary to read in the record any 8 correspondence received in this case. 9 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027, 10 42 were mailed, five returned, zero 11 responses. 12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will 13 now open up this particular case for 14 discussion from the board. 15 MR. GHANNAM: Do you know how many 16 tenants are in this building? 17 MR. MILLER: No, I do not know that 18 information. 19 MR. GHANNAM: There are several, 20 aren't there? 21 MR. MILLER: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: My problem with this 23 particular request is, number one, you're 24 asking for two signs. I understand why. 25 Don't get me wrong, it's logical, you want
32 1 signs all over the building. I get that. 2 Plus you want signs that are 3 oversized for the building. To me the 4 outside of the building is identified as a 5 medical building. Not necessarily urgent 6 care, but medical. 7 The ground sign already 8 identifies that there is an urgent care 9 there. 10 I don't think this is the type 11 of business that people are driving up and 12 down the street looking for an urgent care. 13 It's something you look on 14 your phone or you look in the yellow pages, 15 something to that effect. So hopefully 16 people would look you up before they come 17 driving around, so I don't think, in my 18 opinion, this meets standards that are 19 required for these type of hearings. 20 Unfortunately, I would not be 21 in support of this. 22 MR. MILLER: A couple of things, 23 one, you asked about the other tenants and 24 that in the building. 25 The property management spoke
33 1 with all of the tenants of the building and 2 they didn't have any problem. I mean, from 3 that aspect -- 4 MR. GHANNAM: Sir, I understand 5 that. I'm not really trying to argue with 6 you. But with your theory, every single 7 tenant should be entitled to a couple of 8 signs because why not dermatology, and why 9 not obstetrics and so forth. 10 I don't think just because 11 it's an urgent care it has any special 12 preference. There is a ground sign, that 13 hopefully all tenants will have some 14 identification for. I just don't think this 15 meets our standards. Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Anything additional? 17 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. I agree 18 with Mr. Ghannam. This is not an emergency 19 room. An urgent care sign is already there. 20 These additional signs are not necessary. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 23 Sanghvi. 24 Do we have any additional 25 comments or questions? Yes, Member Krieger.
34 1 MS. KRIEGER: Has the company, the 2 Premier Medical area, that signage in redoing 3 it, have they considered remodeling that or 4 changing it so that they can accommodate the 5 desire to put the signs on east, west for 6 urgent care? 7 MR. MILLER: No, they hadn't at 8 this point, no. 9 MR. FENSTER: My name is Matt 10 Fenster with Paragon. I'm the managing agent 11 for Affiliated Investors who owns Premier 12 Medical. 13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sir, could you 14 please spell your name for the record. 15 MR. FENSTER: F, as in Frank, 16 e-n-s-t-e-r. 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you raise your 18 right hand and be sworn in first. 19 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027, 20 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear to tell 21 the truth in this case? 22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, I do. 23 With regard to the signs for 24 Premier Medical, we had talked about, you 25 know, changing that.
35 1 It's a physician owned 2 building. I support their feeling on this, 3 that they have built some equity in that 4 name, their patients know how to find the 5 building. It's known as Premier Medical in 6 the community, so having Premier on the 7 building is important to them. 8 Additionally, we feel it's 9 important to have the urgent care on there 10 because it's really kind of serving a service 11 to the community by providing these types of 12 services. 13 I think it's important for 14 people to be able to find the building, when 15 they need to, for those types of services. 16 MS. KRIEGER: So for an urgent 17 care, compared to an emergency room, what do 18 they have available that somebody sees urgent 19 care that they're going to stop? 20 MR. FENSTER: Well, the concept for 21 urgent care is to take a lot of the 22 non-emergency cases outside of the emergency 23 room, where a lot of people go to emergency 24 rooms, that don't have an emergency. 25 The urgent care fills that
36 1 need. Emergency rooms are meant for people 2 in a true dire emergency. 3 MS. KRIEGER: Because I was 4 thinking about it. It is important to show 5 that you're an urgent care, but I agree with 6 the previous two speakers that with the 7 signage already approved, that those two 8 signs could be re-accommodated to show what 9 your desiring versus having two extra signs. 10 That's all my questions. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 12 Krieger. 13 Just a quick comment. I 14 think, sir, the point you just made, pretty 15 much contradicts what the gentleman is trying 16 to do and actually helps the position that 17 the members have already espoused here. 18 Premier Medical, like you 19 said, is something that is known by everyone. 20 It's something that the physicians who own 21 the building feel that everybody is already 22 aware of. 23 So it's easy to say, if you 24 want to find the urgent care, just look for 25 Premier Medical. So you make the case very
37 1 easy for me to be against what you're really 2 asking for. 3 Unfortunately, that was the 4 best argument that could have been made by us 5 here, but you made that for us. 6 MR. FENSTER: I don't think so. 7 Because it's a medical building, but not 8 every medical building has urgent care in it. 9 The Keystone building down the 10 street does not have urgent care in it. So 11 someone says, Keystone Medical, they should 12 not go there in the evening, if they have an 13 issue, they should go to Premier. And the 14 only way they will know that is that because 15 of the urgent care signage. 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do have -- the 17 current sign that you have right now has 18 urgent care on it. 19 MR. FENSTER: Correct. 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Because I have been 21 there quite a few times. I really don't go 22 looking for it in the City of Novi because I 23 know exactly where it's located. 24 So it's very easy to find. I 25 know to look for the Premier medical
38 1 building, I know where the urgent care is 2 located on Twelve Mile. 3 There is only one urgent care 4 on Twelve Mile, is that correct, sir? In the 5 City of Novi, will you agree -- 6 MR. FENSTER: I don't know. I 7 think you're correct, but I don't know 100 8 percent. 9 CHAIRMAN IBE: There is just one 10 because I know that for a fact, so it's very 11 easy to find the place. 12 It is only -- if you are 13 looking for Chase bank, you drive down the 14 street looking for Chase bank, but most 15 people that go to urgent care, would you 16 agree that when they go to an urgent care it 17 is because they need -- they have a need to 18 go there. 19 So certainly they would have 20 looked up the address before leaving the 21 home. 22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, but it makes it 23 that much easier, you know, when you're a 24 parent with a sick child, and -- it just 25 helps them find the building that much
39 1 easier. 2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank 3 you very much, sir. 4 MR. MILLER: Could I add something 5 to that? 6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Unfortunately, sir, 7 there is no question on the table right now. 8 Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate your 9 comments. 10 Do we have any additional 11 questions or comments from the board? 12 (No audible responses.) 13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 14 entertain a motion, please. 15 MR. GEDEON: In Case 12-028, for 16 43263 Crescent Boulevard -- 17 MR. GHANNAM: No. 18 MR. GEDEON: I'm sorry. In Case 19 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile Road, I move to 20 deny the requested variance, specifically the 21 request is not based upon circumstances or 22 features that are exceptional and unique to 23 the property, and merely result from 24 conditions that exist generally in the city. 25 The failure to grant relief
40 1 will not unreasonably prevent or limit the 2 use of the property, and will result in 3 nothing more than a mere inconvenience or 4 inability to obtain a higher economic 5 financial return. 6 Additionally, the specific 7 sign text of urgent care is already listed on 8 the existing ground sign. 9 The grant of relief would be 10 inconsistent with the spirit of the 11 ordinance. 12 MR. GHANNAM: Second. 13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion and 14 a second, do we have any further conversation 15 regarding this case? 16 (No audible responses.) 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can you 18 please call the roll. 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 20 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 22 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
41 1 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 3 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 5 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 7 to zero. 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. 9 Good luck. 10 Move on to Case No. 12-028, 11 43263 Crescent Boulevard. Will the applicant 12 come to the podium, state your full name and 13 spell your last name for the record. 14 If you're not an attorney, 15 please raise your right hand be sworn in by 16 our secretary. Thank you. 17 MR. DETERS: Good evening. I'm 18 John Deters, D-e-t-e-r-s, from Metro Detroit 19 Signs, 23544 Hoover Road, in Warren. With is 20 me Mr. Pitts from Casual Male Retail Group. 21 MR. PITTS: Good evening. My name 22 is Dan Pitts. I'm with Casual Male Retail 23 Group. The home office address is 555 24 Turnpike Street, in Canton, Massachusetts. I 25 am the vice president of store planning.
42 1 Last name is spelled P-i-t-t-s. 2 MS. KRIEGER: Are either of you 3 attorneys? 4 MR. DETERS: No. 5 MR. PITTS: No. 6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028 7 for 43263 Crescent Boulevard, do you both 8 swear to tell the truth in this case? 9 MR. PITTS: I do. 10 MR. DETERS: I do. 11 DXL Mens Apparel is moving 12 into a new area in the mall, and they have 13 asked for two signs. 14 The first has been approved, 15 and the request today is for a variance to 16 approve the second one. 17 The first one is in the front 18 of the store, facing the parking lot, the 19 interior part of the mall. The second one is 20 on the direct -- is directly behind it in the 21 back of the store, facing the loop road that 22 runs around the north side of the mall. 23 DXL is asking for this 24 variance because of the lack of 25 identification, there is nothing on the back,
43 1 which also is a door, for customers, just as 2 the front. 3 So for that reason, the 4 company is asking for this approval of the 5 second sign. 6 Mr. Pitts has a few other 7 words that he'd like to say about in support 8 of the request. 9 MR. PITTS: Good evening. As John 10 had referenced, we specifically have 11 structured the footprint of this particular 12 space so that we have two entrances, one in 13 the front facing the inside of the shopping 14 center. The second one will face Crescent 15 Road, and we did that primarily for visibilty 16 and also to create an opportunity for a 17 second sign. 18 We are working with Simon, the 19 developer, on creating a facia. There are 20 presently two columns that stand as recessed 21 entry under the clock tower. We will be 22 creating a bridging facia working with the 23 original architects of the shopping center, 24 that will be brought forward to create a 25 better visibility situation.
44 1 The dimensions of that facia, 2 that enhancement, it's approximately six foot 3 six tall, the facia condition that you're 4 looking at is approximately 19 feet wide. 5 Part of the reason why we have 6 suggested the sign, the size sign that we 7 have proposed architecturally, the 8 proportions of that enhancement seems to call 9 for -- in our opinion, it seems to call for a 10 sign larger than the -- I believe the 24 11 square foot limit. That 24 square feet, the 12 sign would be basically 27 inches tall by 13 four feet wide. So it would be very a small 14 postage stamp within that overall 15 architectural condition that we are creating. 16 It should be mentioned -- 17 actually I'd like to mention, we presently do 18 have a store called Casual Male XL. Casual 19 Male XL is owned and operated by Casual Male 20 Retail Group, as I said, based in Canton, 21 Massachusetts. We have presently 400 stores. 22 We are converting the chain to a new concept, 23 a new superstore concept. 24 Novi is one of the towns that 25 in 2012 that we -- one of the 35 locations
45 1 that we are converting. Over the next three 2 years we will have converted the entire 3 chain. By the end of this year, we will have 4 50 destination XL stores. 5 I think the -- again, the 6 important points we feel is we are going to 7 have a second entrance on this side of the 8 building. That's why we are petitioning for 9 a second sign. 10 Also just based on the 11 architecture of the rear of the building, 12 underneath the clock tower, we are developing 13 that facia to, again working with the 14 existing architects, we feel that the size 15 sign we are asking for is proportionately 16 appropriate based on the architectural 17 conditions we are creating. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 19 Is there anybody in the 20 audience who would like to make a comment 21 regarding this particular case, please raise 22 your hand. 23 (No audible responses.) 24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, seeing none, I 25 will ask our secretary to read into the
46 1 record any correspondence received. 2 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028, 3 175 were emailed, 42 returned, zero 4 responses. 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will 6 now turn to the city for any comment they may 7 have regarding this particular case. 8 MS. SAARELA: I have none. 9 MR. BOULARD: Just as a point of 10 reference, the sign on the front of the 11 building is within -- the proposed sign on 12 the front of the building is within the size 13 allowed by the ordinance. 14 This is the request for the 15 second sign on the rear. As mentioned, in 16 this type of report, there was a previous 17 variance from a number of years ago that 18 allowed a rear sign of 54 square feet. This 19 request is a nominal two square feet bigger, 20 at 56. 21 But the condition of the 22 variance at that time, that there could be no 23 additional signs on the back, so hence the 24 petitioners are back before you. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you so much,
47 1 Mr. Boulard. 2 I will now open it up for 3 discussion among the board. Yes, Member 4 Sanghvi. 5 MR. SANGHVI: The entire 6 configuration of the Town Center has changed, 7 with the changed layout. It is very hard to 8 know which is the front and which is the back 9 in this particular case. And they do need to 10 have some kind of identification of this 11 business on both sides, especially on the 12 street side. 13 So I have no problem 14 supporting this application. Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. Do 16 we have any further comments? Questions? 17 Yes. 18 MR. GHANNAM: I agree also given 19 the nature and the configuration of this 20 particular building. Also ordinarily I 21 wouldn't approve, or at least be in favor of 22 a sign that large, but I think your argument 23 is -- seems to be accurate in that, I mean, 24 it was built for that in a sense. If you 25 didn't have something, it would look -- you
48 1 know, that size, it would be unusual. If you 2 had no sign at all, it would also look pretty 3 unusual. So I think under the circumstances, 4 I would approve this. 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Do we 6 have any further comments or questions? 7 MS. KRIEGER: I do have a question. 8 Regarding the DXL, when I first drove by, I 9 was thinking it was going to be recessed like 10 that, how was anybody driving by going to see 11 it, but from the expressway, you can see it 12 look structurally -- I agree that it is 13 proportional. And because of the 14 configuration, I agree with the previous 15 speaker, that the mall is different now, that 16 it would need additional signage. 17 I was wondering though because 18 of windows, different stores with 19 different -- would the windows have signage 20 in them as well or how would they be 21 decorated? 22 MR. PITTS: Typically our -- the 23 perimeter windows of our store would either 24 have mannequin displays, lifestyle display. 25 Sometimes it's a combination of props and
49 1 layered -- sometimes there are layered 2 graphics that are three and four feet back 3 from the actual line of the glass. 4 I'd have to really take a look 5 at the floor plan of this particular store 6 because the way it's configured and the way 7 the Simon Group is subdividing the space, the 8 windows on the left-hand side will not be our 9 windows. That's a separate tenancy. 10 We are actually -- our primary 11 frontage is facing inside of the mall, but we 12 have kind of a continual -- basically a wide 13 swathe of the store that will lead to that 14 entrance directly under the clock tower. 15 That will definitely be an entrance right 16 into the sales area of the store. 17 So we don't have all those 18 windows, I guess, really is what I'm trying 19 to -- is my response to the question. 20 So in this particular case, 21 I'm not sure how those windows will be 22 decorated by the tenants who ultimately do 23 lease those spaces, that flank that entrance, 24 that flank the entrance underneath the clock 25 tower.
50 1 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Any 3 additional questions or comments? 4 (No audible responses.) 5 Seeing none, I will entertain 6 a motion. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Krieger. 8 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028, 9 43263 Crescent Boulevard, I move to approve 10 the request for one additional sign for this 11 petitioner. 12 That the request is based upon 13 circumstances that are unique and exceptional 14 to this property. 15 The mall is being regenerated 16 and has new drives, which makes some 17 buildings have two frontages and that these 18 conditions generally are existing in the 19 city. 20 The failure to grant relief 21 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of 22 the property and will result in substantially 23 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 24 attain a higher economic or financial return. 25 The grant of the relief will
51 1 not result in a use of structure that is 2 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 3 with the adjacent or surrounding properties 4 and it is compatible to other businesses in 5 the area, and will result in substantial 6 justice being done to the applicant and 7 surrounding properties and is not 8 inconsistent with the spirit of the 9 ordinance. 10 MR. SANGHVI: Second. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing 12 that a motion has been made and seconded, do 13 we have any need for further comments 14 regarding the case? 15 (No audible responses.) 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please 17 call the roll. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 19 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
52 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 4 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 6 to zero. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations, 8 sir. 9 MR. PITTS: Thank you very much. 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: We now go to Case 11 No. 12-029, 24951 Portsmouth. Will the 12 applicant please come to the podium. Please 13 state your full name address. Also, spell 14 your last name for the record. 15 If you're not an attorney, 16 please raise your right hand and be sworn in. 17 MR. BRONZOVICH: My name is Tony 18 Bronzovich, it's B, like boy, r-o-n-z, like 19 zebra, o-v, like Victor, i-c-h from Epiphany 20 Kitchens, 107 North Center Street, 21 Northville, Michigan. 22 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-029, 23 for 42951 Portsmouth, do you swear to tell 24 the truth in this case? 25 MR. BRONZOVICH: Yes, I do.
53 1 What we are looking to do is 2 do an addition to their home, to enlarge 3 their kitchen eating space. 4 They have a corner lot right 5 now on Portsmouth. The variance -- excuse 6 me, the code is for 30 feet of a setback and 7 we are looking for a 25 and a half foot 8 setback, we are going to do four and a half 9 foot addition. 10 What we were looking to do is 11 Mr. and Mr. Moore are planning on retiring in 12 that home and they really enjoy the 13 community. 14 They feel that the kitchen is 15 getting to the point of needing remodeling 16 and we are looking to make it for their 17 future and not just for right now. 18 What they have found is as 19 their family is growing and their life is 20 changing, they need more space for people. 21 They need larger walkways to accommodate 22 relatives that are handicapped and just stuff 23 for them as they get older. 24 What the plan will do is allow 25 us to create a more ergonomic configuration
54 1 so they can get through the kitchen easier, 2 open up walkways, put things like wall ovens 3 where it is easier to reach things when you 4 get older. 5 Again, just make it useful 6 space for them and a more functional space as 7 they age in the home. 8 We did do a survey of the 9 neighbors in the area, I believe, was part of 10 the packet. We had five of the neighbors 11 around the corner did approve the look. 12 We did talk to the 13 neighborhood -- the homeowners association 14 which also gave us a letter of recommendation 15 on that. 16 I have that here because they 17 met after the deadline to turn everything in. 18 Can I approach? 19 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 20 MR. BRONZOVICH: I guess that is my 21 case. 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, thank you. Is 23 there anybody in the public who would like to 24 make a comment regarding this particular 25 case, please raise your hand.
55 1 (No audible responses.) 2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 3 ask our secretary to read into the record any 4 correspondence. 5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029, 6 26 were emailed, zero returned, one approval 7 and it's from Duane and Lillian Zalinski and 8 they circled approval. We have no underlying 9 objection to this requested variance. 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I would 11 now turn to the city for any comment that 12 they have regarding this case. 13 MS. SAARELA: I have none. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 15 MR. BOULARD: Stand by for 16 questions. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will 18 now open it up to the board for discussion. 19 Yes. 20 MS. KRIEGER: Should I read into 21 the minutes the petition that was -- put in 22 our packet? 23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is that something 24 that was received -- 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
56 1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sure. 2 MS. KRIEGER: From the neighbors. 3 "I acknowledge that I have 4 viewed the plans for the six foot bump out to 5 the Moore residence at 24951 Portsmouth 6 Avenue in Novi. I would like the City of 7 Novi to know they have my full support for 8 this project." The first one is from 9 Lorne Purslow on Portsmouth. 10 The second one is from Bridget 11 Rouhan on Portsmouth. The next one is 12 from -- 13 MR. SANGHVI: Would you like me to 14 read it? 15 MS. KRIEGER: Yes, please. 16 MR. SANGHVI: Nenkataramana Kongara 17 from White Plains Drive. 18 MS. KRIEGER: Jim Morris on 19 Portsmouth and -- 20 MR. SANGHVI: Rajwinder Kaur from 21 Portsmouth Avenue. 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. We will 23 make sure to provide this to our reporter so 24 we can get the correct spellings of those 25 names. Thank you.
57 1 I will now open it up to the 2 board for discussion. Anyone have any 3 questions or comments? 4 MR. SANGHVI: Actually I was there 5 this afternoon and I saw your property. And 6 it's a very good idea. I have no problem 7 with supporting your application. On a 8 corner lot it is very hard to know which is 9 the front and which is the back and which is 10 the side. 11 What you are proposing is not 12 going to affect anybody and it is good for 13 you. I'm sure it's good for everybody else. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 16 Sanghvi. 17 MR. GHANNAM: I also agree with 18 him, because it is a double frontage lot and 19 it seems that your neighbors don't have a 20 problem and it was approved by your 21 homeowners association, to me lends support 22 to your request. 23 You did your homework before 24 you came in here. That's what we like to 25 see, just to make sure there is no issues
58 1 with anybody. Sometimes when people come in, 2 they alert us to things that we don't think 3 about. 4 I have no problems supporting 5 this. 6 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you, sir. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 8 Any additional comments or 9 questions? 10 MR. SANGHVI: Make a motion. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no other 12 conversations, I will entertain a motion. 13 Madam Krieger. 14 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029 15 for 24951 Portsmouth, I move to approve the 16 request, that there are unique circumstances 17 and physical conditions of the property such 18 as narrowness, shallowness, shape, water, 19 topography or similar physical conditions, 20 and the need for the variance is not due to 21 the applicant's personal or economic 22 difficulty, that their house has two 23 frontages, from two streets. It's not 24 self-created. 25 That strict compliance with
59 1 regulations governing area setback, frontage, 2 height, bulk, density or other dimensional 3 requirements will unreasonably prevent the 4 property owner from using the property for a 5 permitted purpose or will render conformity 6 with those regulations unnecessarily 7 burdensome. 8 That they spoke with their 9 neighbors and the homeowners association. 10 And the requested variance is the minimum 11 variance necessary to do substantial justice 12 to the applicant as well as to other 13 properties in the district and that it is 14 very nice to want to stay in your home. 15 And the requested variance 16 will not cause an adverse impact on 17 surrounding property values or the use and 18 enjoyment of the property in the neighborhood 19 of zoning district. 20 MR. GHANNAM: Second. 21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion has 22 been made and seconded, do we have any 23 further conversation? 24 (No audible responses.) 25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please
60 1 call the roll. 2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 3 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 5 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 9 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 11 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 13 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 15 to zero. 16 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you very 17 much. 18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations, 19 sir. 20 That brings us to our last 21 case for today. Case No. 12-030, 1409 East 22 Lake Drive. 23 Will the applicant please come 24 to the podium, state your full name for the 25 record as well as your address and please --
61 1 MR. BROOKE: Jeffrey Brooke, 2 J-e-f-f-r-e-y, B-r-o-o-k-e, 1409 East Lake 3 Drive. 4 MS. KRIEGER: Are you an attorney? 5 MR. BROOKE: No, I am not. 6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030, 7 for 1409 East Lake Drive, do you swear to 8 tell the truth in this case? 9 MR. BROOKE: I do. 10 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you. 11 MR. BROOKE: I'm not sure if 12 anybody had a chance to go my house, but if 13 you're driving past from the road, it looks 14 bigger than it actually is. 15 We have -- we have a, you 16 know, a garage right on the main floor, 17 between that and the stairs it takes up 60 18 percent of the main area. Then upstairs we 19 have 850 square feet. So the four of us it's 20 kind of limited. 21 Not just that, but when they 22 built the place, the main beam that carries 23 the load through the garage is too small, so 24 they had to put a post in the middle of the 25 garage.
62 1 So I have been there -- my 2 wife bought the place 14 years ago. I have 3 been living there with her for 12 years, I 4 have never been able to park in the garage. 5 So this is what precipitated all of this. 6 She parks her Honda, we have a 7 piece of carpet right against the post so she 8 can get her car in there. 9 So we decided we'd ask the 10 neighbors if they would be adverse to us 11 putting a garage between the two houses -- or 12 a driveway between the two houses and a 13 garage in the back. Nobody objected. 14 Everybody was good with it. 15 We went before the 16 construction board, they came and looked at 17 it. There is no problem whatsoever. 18 The whole idea being that we 19 are going to turn the existing garage into a 20 family room so that we'd have more space 21 because it's pretty limited. 22 Then we would both be able to 23 park our cars in the back. 24 The idea behind the variance 25 on the side and the back being that if we
63 1 could move the garage back a little bit, we 2 could drive it and it would enable us to back 3 out and drive out the driveway for safety 4 concerns. We don't want to be backing out 5 the driveway itself. That was the objective 6 behind. 7 Right behind the house itself 8 is a lot. It's a double lot, 60 by 120. The 9 gentleman who owns it, has no problem with us 10 putting a garage in there, looking for the 11 four foot variances. His building that he 12 will build there potentially is not going to 13 be anywhere near where we are at. 14 None of the neighbors seem to 15 have any issue with it whatsoever. 16 I know that the total lot 17 coverage was approximately 1 percent over 18 what the allowance is, and I actually have an 19 issue with the paperwork, as it is, 20 (inaudible). They said it was 41 percent of 21 the backyard. But it actually comes in at 22 25.5 percent. 23 I did the calculations, if you 24 want it here. I don't know if you want to 25 look at it.
64 1 But that was the goal. We 2 have a very small home. We'd like to able to 3 drive into the garage in the backyard, be 4 able to back out. I went and calculated the 5 turn radius of my van, so that I could be 6 assured that I could do that, and with the 7 two foot of extra space, I can get in the 8 garage, back up and drive out the driveway. 9 That's the objective there. 10 And obviously for both of us to be able park 11 in the garage and have a family room and some 12 space because the house itself is very, very. 13 That's it. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. 15 Is there anyone in the 16 audience who would like to make a comment 17 regarding this particular case, please raise 18 your hand. 19 (No audible responses.) 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 21 ask our secretary to read into the record any 22 correspondence. 23 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030, 24 77 were mailed, 11 returned, five approvals, 25 zero objections.
65 1 The first one is from Alana 2 Erb on the East Side Lake Drive, she 3 approves. She just circled the approval. 4 The next one is the same 5 thing, circled approved from Margaret 6 Rapnicki. 7 The third one is approval 8 circled from Carl Sheppi. "In my opinion, 9 the detached garage will improve the 10 property, therefore, increasing the value and 11 value of adjacent properties." 12 The fourth one is approval 13 circled. "We approve of all requested 14 variances to allow construction of the 15 attached garage at 1409 East Lake. Because 16 of the small lot sizes, many residents, 17 including myself, have successfully 18 petitioned the zoning boards for relief. 19 Thank you." From Drew and Sue Soborowski. 20 That's it. 21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 22 Krieger. 23 We will now turn to the city 24 for any comment they may have on this case. 25 MS. SAARELA: I have none.
66 1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. 2 MR. BOULARD: Point of 3 clarification, if I could. 4 The reason when we calculated 5 the coverage for the rear yard, the maximum 6 allowed in the code is for the required rear 7 yard, not the actual rear yard. 8 So when we looked at the area 9 of the rear yard, we used just the rear 10 35 feet of that. That's why the number came 11 out differently in the report. 12 MR. BROOKE: I was confused. I 13 measured it all out and I calculated it and 14 it just didn't make sense to me. 15 MR. BOULARD: It's just the last 16 35 feet of it. That's why the number came 17 out differently. 18 One question, if I could. 19 Unless I'm mistaken, a 22 by 24-foot garage 20 would comply with all the requirements. If 21 it was 22 foot by 24 feet, 528 feet, we would 22 get you the rear setbacks and so on, but 23 obviously -- what you're asking for is 24 slightly larger than that -- well, quite a 25 bit larger than that. So I wondered if you
67 1 could kind of walk us through that. 2 MR. BROOKE: The goal being to park 3 both cars, and then with a little bit extra 4 room, I would be in compliance with some 5 added trusses. I know that they have to be 6 14 foot at the median of the attic truss, 7 which means that I need some space to put a 8 set of stairs up there, and then I would add 9 some storage space up top. 10 So I mean, I store stuff in 11 the attic all the time. I'm storing it on 12 the stairs. We live right on the lake, you 13 know, we have got stuff everywhere. It's 14 extremely difficult. 15 And you know, to be honest 16 with you, my kids, their friends don't come 17 over in the winter, they go to other kids' 18 places because is there is nowhere to play. 19 So the family room is going to 20 solve that, then be able to have storage, 21 whatnot inside, and have nice set of stairs, 22 get your cars in, have a little bit of room 23 to store a couple things. Then have the 24 stairs go up and have some attic space. 25 Just would be a good facility
68 1 for us. The house is really small. It's 850 2 square foot footprint on a double lot. Most 3 people have, you know, bigger footprint than 4 that on a single lot. That's why. 5 And we have the lot across, as 6 you can see, from the paperwork. 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, 8 Mr. Boulard. 9 I will now open it up to the 10 board for discussion. Yes, Member Sanghvi. 11 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. Question, 12 sir, how big is your house? 13 MR. BROOKE: Total living area? 14 MR. SANGHVI: Living area, yeah. 15 MR. BROOKE: I would say it's 1,200 16 some square feet, 1,300 square feet. 17 MR. SANGHVI: And the new garage 18 that you are trying to propose to do is how 19 big? 20 MR. BROOKE: It's 850 square feet 21 in the backyard. So we would take the 22 existing garage, which is 18 by 20 and make 23 that a family room. So I mean, we would end 24 up with, you know, 1,600 square feet, 1,700 25 square feet.
69 1 MR. SANGHVI: What I'm trying to 2 say, do you think it is proportionate to the 3 size of the living area, your garage? 4 MR. BROOKE: I think it is. I 5 think it will work out well because we are on 6 a double lot. The garage will not be, you 7 know, too large. 8 As you say, the backyard 9 itself, you're only taking the first 35 feet, 10 but there is another -- it's 50 some feet 11 from the back of the house to the lot line, 12 by 60. It's a large, large area. 13 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Member Skelcy? 15 MS. SKELCY: Do you have a basement 16 in the house? 17 MR. BROOKE: No. 18 MS. SKELCY: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Ghannam. 20 MR. GHANNAM: We have had a number 21 over the years, at least since I have been 22 here, of houses on the lake that have 23 requested garages. 24 I understand how you explained 25 it where you have an existing garage, but
70 1 realistically you can't use it. 2 So to me it does make sense 3 what you're doing, you're converting that to 4 living space, and adding a two-car garage 5 with some extra space. 6 Generally I have no problem 7 with that. My always concern is like safety 8 issues with the fire marshal. Is this 9 something they would input in, if there was 10 an issue with it? 11 MR. BOULARD: The building code 12 would require ratings on the exterior wall, 13 so the garage, those facing the property 14 lines, as they get closer to the property 15 line, the rating would increase, to decrease 16 the likelihood of a fire in the garage 17 impacting any neighboring properties. 18 MR. GHANNAM: So, I mean, given 19 those safety precautions that you would be 20 required to take anyway, I would have no 21 problem with this request. 22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes, 23 Member Krieger. 24 MS. KRIEGER: I guess just to 25 clarify. There is the big tree on the one
71 1 side so the driveway would go around the 2 other side? 3 MR. BROOKE: Yes, on the left. 4 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member 6 Krieger. 7 Do we have any other comments 8 or questions? 9 (No audible responses.) 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will 11 entertain a motion. Yes. 12 MR. GHANNAM: I will make a motion 13 in Case. No. 12-030, for 1409 East Lake 14 Drive, move to grant the petition as 15 requested. 16 There are unique circumstances 17 and conditions of the property, such as the 18 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water, 19 topography and similar conditions. And the 20 need for the variance is not due to the 21 applicant's personal or economic difficulty. 22 The need is certainly not 23 self-created. Strict compliance with 24 regulations such as setback, frontage, height 25 and so forth, would unreasonably prevent that
72 1 property owner from using the property for a 2 permitted purpose. 3 The requested variance is the 4 minimum variance necessary to do substantial 5 justice to the applicant and the other 6 property owners in the district. And the 7 requested variance will not cause adverse 8 impact on surrounding property values or the 9 use and enjoyment of the property 10 neighborhood or zoning district. 11 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion 13 has been made and seconded, do we have any 14 further conversation regarding this motion? 15 (No audible responses.) 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please 17 call the roll. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 19 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam? 21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe? 23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. yes.
73 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 4 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 6 to zero. 7 MR. BROOKE: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations. 9 We are now going to go to 10 other matters on the agenda. Do we have any 11 other matters that need to be addressed by 12 the board? 13 MS. KRIEGER: Mr. Valenti at the 14 end of the meeting wanted to have something 15 to say. 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Mr. Valenti. 17 MR. VALENTI: Thank you for your 18 indulgence. It's related to a temporary for 19 rent sign that I'm trying to place. 20 I had placed the sign and an 21 ordinance officer asked me to move it to the 22 other side of the street. This is Twelve 23 Mile, M5, Summit Drive. I have a map. 24 In order to comply with the 25 ordinance, this sign would not be visible.
74 1 Then, further investigation, 2 was told it would take until September to get 3 on the agenda, and I'm not sure -- my request 4 was for some advice because I'm asking for 5 some relief in the fact that it would appear 6 that a variance would be logical because you 7 could not see the sign. 8 Part of this is because of the 9 property lines that were redrawn because our 10 home was condemned due to the Haggerty 11 connector road that was built, and the new 12 setbacks. 13 And I'm asking to be able to 14 place the sign or some guidance as to how I 15 might expedite. 16 Otherwise, the home had been 17 rented for the last five years, it would be a 18 temporary sign. I expect to -- you know, to 19 rent again. But my renter is leaving at the 20 end of this month, and again, I had posted 21 the sign and an ordinance officer had told me 22 that it was compliant, only now finding today 23 through many phone calls through the city 24 where I stand is that again, if it meets 25 the -- if I placed it within the ordinance,
75 1 the sign would not visible. I have a map 2 here just to clarify that. 3 I guess, I don't understand if 4 it's appropriate of an interim variance or 5 something. Given the circumstances, and I'm 6 a 50 year resident of the city, former parks 7 and rec commissioner. 8 I'd like some guidance as to 9 what might be a logical answer to my dilemma. 10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, 11 Mr. Valenti. I will refer the question to 12 Mr. Boulard here. 13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question 14 before I go any further. Is the proposal 15 location, is it on your property or in the 16 public right-of-way? 17 MR. VALENTI: It would be in the 18 public right-of-way because the setback would 19 be in the woodlands area. 20 What it requires is from the 21 property line, the setback, I think is like 22 36 feet from Twelve Mile on one side and 56 23 on another. 24 The ordinance officer asked me 25 to move it because it was in the oncoming
76 1 right-of-way of Twelve Mile westbound, to the 2 west side of Summit Drive, which isn't a 3 visual obstruction for traffic. 4 Again, it's a temporary sign, 5 two by three foot for rent sign. I don't 6 know if that answers your question. 7 MR. GEDEON: Does your property 8 afront more than one road? 9 MR. VALENTI: Yes. The property is 10 the corner of Summit Drive and Twelve Mile. 11 MR. GEDEON: Is there 12 availability -- is it because you want the 13 more visibilty on Twelve Mile, is that the 14 issue? 15 MR. VALENTI: It would be both. 16 And to use the setback on Summit Drive 17 because of the relocation of Summit Drive due 18 to the Haggerty connector road, there is a 19 six-inch gas main, so the property line is 20 actually at the very peak of the hill. So 21 half way between the house and property line, 22 would drop the sign behind and would not be 23 visible from the street either. 24 So I think in both cases, I 25 don't have a choice.
77 1 MR. BOULARD: Sir, if I may, you 2 said you had a map. Could you put it on the 3 overhead? 4 MR. VALENTI: Absolutely. I have 5 two because I couldn't get them all on the 6 same one at the library. Let me show you the 7 Twelve Mile frontage here. As you can see, 8 this is north, going up. This is the 9 frontage of the house there. This is the 10 property line here, approximately, and then 11 as the ordinance reads, it would be half way 12 between the property line and the home, which 13 would be right here in the middle of the 14 woods. 15 And then the alternate 16 location, showing a little further north, the 17 property line is now here because this is all 18 a six-inch gas main that was required to be 19 outside of the interchange when they built 20 the M5 connector, so the ordinance would read 21 half way between the property line and the 22 home, which I have drawn approximately here. 23 But this is a high point, so 24 this sign would be not visible from the road 25 either. Plus this is a very steep hill, for
78 1 those who may be familiar with the area of 2 Summit Drive and Twelve Mile. 3 So in either case, the sign 4 would not be visible at all. 5 MR. BOULARD: I guess, if I may, my 6 suggestion would be to work with the 7 ordinance officers to find an acceptable 8 spot. I think they would probably be willing 9 to do that. Realizing that, you know, you've 10 got some particulars to the site. I believe 11 it would be outside the purview of the board 12 to grant you a variance for a sign in the 13 right-of-way, in the public right-of-way. 14 Just my thought. I think 15 you'll probably find, it's probably not going 16 to be, you know, right out on the main road 17 there. Maybe there is an area at the edge of 18 the property that would be clear that -- 19 MR. VALENTI: I guess that's what I 20 was hopeful, right at the edge where the 21 forest begins, that the sign would be back 22 right at that particular place, so it would 23 not be a hinderance to traffic or anything, 24 and a temporary two by three foot sign. 25 MR. BOULARD: I guess I would
79 1 suggest that if the sign -- if there is a 2 location that we can look at outside of the 3 right-of-way that we could work with the 4 ordinance folks to give you as much visibilty 5 as possible without moving the sign out in 6 the public right-of-way. That would be my 7 suggestion. 8 MR. VALENTI: I guess just to 9 clarify. Anything outside of the 10 right-of-way would not be visible because of 11 the -- I guess the hardship that was created 12 by the new lines that were drawn due to the 13 M5 property condemnation, the taking of the 14 property and the lines that were left 15 following that. 16 MR. BOULARD: I guess I think there 17 may be a spot, it may not be the ideal, 18 visible from all directions. 19 I mean, the frontage of the 20 house is -- the primary frontage is actually 21 on Summit Drive. But the board can't grant a 22 variance without having the proper 23 advertisement and notice for the public and 24 your neighbors and so on. 25 Then there would still be the
80 1 issue of the right-of-way -- the public 2 right-of-way, we would have to deal with the 3 insurance and liability and so on with the 4 Department of Public Services. 5 So I don't believe it would be 6 appropriate for the board to act tonight. 7 MR. VALENTI: I understand. I'm 8 not asking for that. I mentioned that 9 interim variance, which was a creative 10 suggestion by someone. 11 I guess my question though is 12 that I spent a lot of time today, everyone 13 was sending me back to the other part of the 14 city. And I went back and forth through 15 ordinance officers, zoning, engineering. 16 And I guess -- then I found 17 out that there was a meeting tonight, and I 18 also that if I didn't get some kind of 19 guidance, that I was looking at September. 20 I think it's a very unique 21 circumstance, and I guess if I could meet 22 with someone perhaps to talk about some 23 possible avenues of what I need to do because 24 I'm willing to do whatever is necessary. 25 The only thing is, I went on
81 1 the word of the ordinance officer that I was 2 okay. I would have started this two months 3 ago, trust me. 4 MR. BOULARD: I won't be in the 5 office tomorrow, but I would be happy to meet 6 with you the day after to assist you. 7 MR. VALENTI: Thursday? 8 MR. BOULARD: Yes, to help any way 9 I can. 10 MR. VALENTI: That's very generous. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, 12 Mr. Valenti. 13 MR. VALENTI: Did you need my 14 spelling for the record? 15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, if you don't 16 mind, please. 17 MR. VALENTI: V, as in Victor, 18 a-l-e-n-t-i, Nick, 27925 Summit Drive. Thank 19 you. 20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Good 21 luck, sir. 22 MR. SANGHVI: This is a very old 23 issue going back to the building of the M5 24 and the widening of the Twelve Mile and the 25 whole configuration of the area changed many,
82 1 many years ago. It's all in relation in that 2 area. 3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Do we have any other 4 matters that the board wants to recognize at 5 this time? 6 (No audible response.) 7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I 8 entertain a motion for an adjournment? 9 MR. SANGHVI: So moved. 10 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 11 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those in favor 12 say aye. 13 THE BOARD: Aye. 14 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those against? 15 (No audible responses.) 16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the 17 meeting is hereby adjourned. Thank you. 18 (The meeting was adjourned at 8:19 p.m.) 19 ** ** ** 20 21 22 23 24 25
83 1 STATE OF MICHIGAN ) 2 ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF OAKLAND ) 4 I, Jennifer L. Wall, Notary Public within and for the 5 County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby certify that the 6 hearing above, that the statements given by said individuals was 7 stenographically recorded in the presence of myself and others, 8 afterward transcribed by computer under my personal supervision, 9 and that the said statements are a full, true and correct 10 transcript of the statements given by the individuals. 11 I further certify that I am not connected by blood or 12 marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys, and that I 13 am not an employee of any of them, nor financially interested in 14 the action. 15 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at the 16 City of Walled Lake, County of Oakland, State of Michigan. 17 18 19 ________________ _________________________ Date Jennifer L. Wall CSR-4183 20 Oakland County, Michigan My Commission Expires 11/12/15 21 22 23 24 25
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