| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, May , 2007. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY:
1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, May 8, 2007 3 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: By the clock on the 7 wall it's 7:30. I call the May 8th, 2007 Zoning Board of 8 Appeals meeting to order. 9 Ms. Working, would you please call the roll 10 for attendance. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt? 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Will be late. 17 MS. WORKING: Thank you. 18 Chairperson Shroyer? 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Present. 20 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chairperson Fischer? 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Present. 22 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 23 MEMBER CANUP: Here. 24 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
4 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 2 MS. WORKING: All present with the 3 exception of Member Gatt. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. We do 5 have a quorum. This meeting is official and is in 6 session. 7 Member Bauer, would you please lead us in 8 the pledge of Allegiance. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. May we stand, please. 10 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to the 11 flag of the United States of America and to the Republic 12 for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with 13 liberty and justice for all. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Vice-Chairman 16 Fischer, would you please go over the public hearing 17 format and the rules of conduct? 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Sure. Thank 19 you, Mr. Chair. We would ask that all people turn off 20 cell phones and pagers during the meeting. And the rules 21 of conduct for this hearing will be as follows: 22 The Applicant will be asked to come forth 23 and state their name and address and be sworn in by the 24 Secretary. The Applicant will be allowed five minutes to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
5 1 address the Board to present their case. An extension of 2 time may be granted at the discretion of the Chairperson 3 and only the Chairperson. 4 Anyone in the audience who wishes to 5 address the Board regarding the current case will be by 6 the Chairperson to raise their hands and be recognized. 7 Members of the audience will be allowed to 8 address the Board once unless directly questioned by a 9 Board member or the Chairperson. 10 The Secretary will read the number of 11 public hearing notices mailed pertaining to the case. An 12 objection and approval response will be entered into the 13 record at that time. 14 The Chairperson will ask for input from 15 the Community Development Department, the Ordinance 16 Enforcement Officer and the Planning Department as well 17 as the City Attorney. 18 The Chairperson will turn the case over to 19 the Board for discussion, clarification and entertainment 20 of any Motions when appropriate. 21 Impromptu statements from the audience 22 during discussion by the Board will be considered out of 23 order. 24 A roll call vote will be taken to approve LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
6 1 or deny the Motion on the table and the next case will be 2 called. 3 Chairperson SHROYER: Thank you. At this 4 time do we have any additions or deletions to the agenda? 5 MS. WORKING: Chairperson Shroyer, I would 6 like to propose postponement of ZBA 07-016, Number 2 on 7 your agenda this evening. The Petitioner will be going 8 for the June 5th agenda, please. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Motion to 11 approve as amended? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Motion has been made 14 and seconded. All in favor say aye. 15 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Opposed same sign. 17 Okay, we have an agenda. 18 Since this is anticipated to be a rather 19 lengthy meeting, I wanted to make sure that everyone was 20 aware. I plan on offering a recess at about every 21 90-minute interval. We, however, do not plan on 22 recessing in the middle of a public hearing. 23 But I just wanted to make sure everybody 24 was aware of that. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
7 1 At this time I will entertain an approval 2 for the Minutes of March 6th, 2007. Any additions or 3 correction? 4 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been moved and 7 seconded. All in favor say aye? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Opposed same sign. 10 Okay, the March 6th Minutes have been approved. 11 We are now ready for public remarks. Are 12 there any members of the audience that care to speak on 13 any issues that are not covered on the public hearing 14 this evening? 15 Seeing none, we will move on to the first 16 case. 17 18 Case number: 07-015 filed by Chad Haskins 19 of Pulte Homes for 28430 Witherspoon Drive. 20 Pulte Homes is requesting a Temporary Use 21 Permit renewal for the continued placement of a temporary 22 construction trailer on Lot 297 of Liberty Park at 28430 23 Witherspoon Drive from May 8th, 2007 through May 8, 2009. 24 The property is zone RA and located west of Dixon Road LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
8 1 and north of Twelve Mile Road. 2 Under the City Ordinances Section 3004(3), 3 Temporary Use Permits states: The building Official, or 4 his designee, may have the power to grant permits 5 authorizing temporary special land uses for temporary 6 buildings not to exceed two years in undeveloped sections 7 of the City. 8 The Applicant is requesting a Temporary 9 Use Permit renewal for a construction trailer. 10 At this time is the Applicant present? 11 Would you please come forward and if you are not an 12 attorney be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 13 State your name and address for the 14 record, please. 15 MR. CHRISTENSEN: Yes, thank you, Mr. 16 Chairman. Good evening. Good evening, Board. Kevin 17 Christensen representing Pulte Homes of Michigan, 450 18 West Fourth Street, Royal Oak, Michigan 48067. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could 20 raise your hand. Do you swear to tell the truth in Case 21 number: 07-015? 22 MR. CHRISTENSEN: I do. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
9 1 case. 2 MR. CHRISTENSEN: Yes. Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. As you indicated and on the agenda that you 4 had read from, Pulte Homes is requesting a Temporary Use 5 Permit renewal for the existing construction trailer 6 located on Liberty Park in the Towns of Liberty Park 7 Development. The trailer is currently located on Lot 297 8 of the single family portion of the development which is 9 28430 Witherspoon Drive. 10 We are requesting an extension or renewal, 11 if you will, of that Permit for the construction trailer 12 from May 8th, 2007 until May 8th, 2009. The basis for 13 the request as you indicated, the City Ordinances due 14 allow for construction trailers to be approved 15 administratively by the Building Official or his designee 16 for a period of time not to exceed two consecutive years. 17 We started our construction and production 18 of homes at Liberty Park in 2005. A Temporary Use Permit 19 was issued by the Building Official at that time for the 20 2005 year which then expired in 2006. We then requested 21 a renewal, a renewal was granted in 2006 and production 22 continued and the trailer remained. And that permit has 23 recently expired. The reason we are here this evening 24 then is for renewal of that permit. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
10 1 If you are familiar with Liberty Park it 2 is located on the north side of 12 Mile Road near Dixon 3 Road. It is a mixed use development, single family and 4 multiple family units. It's a rather large development. 5 It has 761 total units currently in five phases. Three 6 single family phases and two multiple family phases. 7 With respect to single family, 8 approximately 120 units of the 305 have been either sold 9 or constructed to date. So about one-third. 10 With respect to the multiple family there 11 are two products there. There is 456 multiple family 12 units, and to date there have been approximately 200 13 multiple family units that have been sold or constructed. 14 So, we are in a position right now that 15 with respect to the Ordinance not allowing us to continue 16 to maintain that trailer and only about one-third of this 17 development constructed, that we have a practical 18 difficulty in light of your Ordinance not allowing us to 19 maintain that trailer unless we receive approval from the 20 Zoning Board of Appeals. 21 It puts us in a rather unique circumstance 22 since we need that trailer since it is a central point of 23 operations for the production of homes at the site. 24 In light of that we are here this evening LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
11 1 requesting a renewal to maintain the existing trailer in 2 its current location with no changes from the previous 3 two approvals in 2005 and 2006. Again, requesting this 4 approval from this evening in 2007 for two years until 5 2009. 6 With respect to how long we are going to 7 need it, in this market right now, I wish I could tell 8 you. We appreciate your understanding. We need to 9 maintain that trailer. It is a focal point of our 10 operations and respectfully request your approval this 11 evening. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 13 This is a public hearing. Is there any 14 members of the audience who care to come forward and make 15 a comment? 16 Seeing none, I will state we had 38 17 notices mailed. We received zero approvals and zero 18 objections. 19 At this point I will turn it over to the 20 City and Counsel member -- or our Counsel, City Counsel 21 -- City Attorney being counsel -- two different kinds of 22 counsel, for any kind of comments that they may have. 23 MR. SCHULTZ: None. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, at this point LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
12 1 I will turn it over to the ZBA Board Members for 2 discussion. 3 Mr. Canup -- Member Canup? 4 MEMBER CANUP: I think in light of the 5 fact of our current economic situation and the fact that 6 they have been there for about two years now and the City 7 has had no bad experiences -- is that correct, Building 8 Department? 9 MR. AMOLSCH: That's correct. 10 MEMBER CANUP: I would see no reason why 11 we shouldn't approve this for the next two years or 12 before if you sell all your units. Which I am sure you 13 would be glad to move your unit then, right? 14 MR. CHRISTENSEN: Yes, sir. 15 MEMBER CANUP: So, if there is no further 16 discussion on it, then I would be glad to make a Motion. 17 I make a Motion that in Case number: 18 07-015 that we grant the variance as requested due to the 19 practical hardship as demonstrated by the Petitioner. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The Motion has been 22 made by Member Canup and seconded by Member Bauer. 23 Any further discussion? 24 Please read the roll. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
13 1 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 2 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 3 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 15 MR. CHRISTENSEN: Thank you. 16 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Moving on to our 18 second case of the evening. Case number: 07-016 filed 19 by David Tremonti of Oliver/Hatcher Construction for Novi 20 Promenade Out Lot #1. 21 Oliver/Hatcher Construction is requesting 22 a variance to allow loading and unloading in the interior 23 side yard -- 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
14 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That one has 3 been tabled to June. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That one has been 5 tabled to June 5th. I didn't read my own post-it note. 6 Thank you. 7 8 Case number: 07-017 filed by Art Labelle 9 -- Labelle and Terry Ulch of Aver Sign Company for 24141 10 Novi Road, Marathon Gas Station. 11 Aver Sign Company is requesting a two-foot 12 height variance for the placement of the ground sign for 13 the Marathon Gas Station located at 24141 Novi Road. The 14 property is zoned B-3 and located south of Grand River 15 and west of Novi Road. I believe it's south of Ten Mile 16 at that location. Ten Mile and Novi Road. 17 City Ordinance Section 28-5(2)a.2.ii 18 states: All other ground signs shall not exceed a height 19 of six feet. 20 The Applicant is requesting a two-foot 21 height variance for a ground sign at Marathon Gas 22 Station. 23 I assume you are the Applicant? 24 MR. LABELLE: Yes, sir. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
15 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 2 name and address and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 3 MR. LABELLE: Art Labelle. I am with Aver 4 Sign Company, 359 Livernois, that's in Ferndale, Michigan 5 48220. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Would you raise 7 your hand for us, please. Do you swear to tell the truth 8 regarding Case number: 07-017? 9 MR. LABELLE: I do. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 12 case. 13 MR. LABELLE: The site is a Marathon Gas 14 Station located on the southwest corner of Ten Mile and 15 Novi Road. On the package we submitted to the City we 16 took several photos during the winter from various angles 17 of the site standing in the road, coming up along Ten 18 Mile and Novi Road. And they only have one sign at the 19 site. It's the ground sign that you see in the photos. 20 And as you can see in the photos, the sign 21 is not very visible due to the, if you will, the 22 shrubbery and the greenery that runs parallel to both 23 Novi Road and Ten Mile Road. 24 What the Applicant is looking to do is to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
16 1 raise the sign high enough where it would be visible to 2 both roads. Where the entire sign -- excuse me -- will 3 be visible to both roads in both directions. The photos 4 that you see in front of you were taken way back when we 5 had snow and the stuff on the ground as you can see and 6 the shrubs weren't even in bloom yet or anything. And 7 you can see half of the sign is not even visible. 8 So, their request is to raise the sign. I 9 had met with Mr. Amolsch and he had told me as of the 10 first of the year the Ordinance had changed to allow the 11 sign to be raised one foot, because right now it's a 12 total of 5-foot overall height. And he said we would be 13 allowed by Code to raise it one foot. But as you can see 14 in the photos, one foot is not quite going to make the 15 sign completely visible. 16 So, what we would like to be able to do is 17 raise it a total of three feet. One foot is what we are 18 allowed per the Code, and then another two foot is what 19 we are asking for for the variance. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Before 21 you step down from the podium. Do you have any pictures 22 of the sign with you in your packet? 23 MR. LABELLE: Yes, sir. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Could you put one on LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
17 1 the overhead so our audience can see what we're talking 2 about as well. They will darken the lights so it can be 3 seen easily. I said, they will darken the lights so it 4 can be seen easily. There we go. Thank you, that helps. 5 Thank you. 6 Okay, this is a public hearing. At this 7 time is there any members of the audience that care to 8 speak on this matter? 9 Seeing none. I will state that we had 15 10 notices mailed. We received zero approvals and zero 11 objections. 12 Any comments from the City or Counsel? 13 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no comment, sir. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, I will turn it 15 over to the ZBA members for discussion. 16 Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: I drive by this thing 18 probably at least once a day, sometimes numerous times. 19 And I agree there is a visual problem in seeing that 20 sign. But I don't think that raising it two feet is the 21 answer. I think it's very tasteful. I think maybe the 22 landscaping could be modified and it could be raised a 23 foot to keep it within the Ordinance. 24 Is that landscaping there by Ordinance? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
18 1 MR. SCHULTZ: Through the Chair. I assume 2 that some of that is required, I think. I don't know 3 that the Ordinance specifies the height it's trimmed to 4 and things like that, so it's probably required. It's 5 probably grown up since it's been planted. 6 MEMBER CANUP: I guess my comment would be 7 to trim the bushes, raise the sign a foot and that will 8 be within the Ordinance. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 10 Canup. 11 Any comments? Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a question, Mr. 13 Amolsch. Kitty-corner how high is it? (Unintelligible) 14 MR. AMOLSCH: That's five feet tall. 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: Five feet? 16 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is that all? 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: That's all. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: The sign is already above 21 ground about that much anyways, so trimming it and 22 raising it up would probably make a difference. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, I will go 24 ahead and make my comments. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
19 1 MEMBER CANUP: I would make a Motion. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I will make a 3 comment and you can make a Motion. 4 I drive by this almost every day as well. 5 And I can understand the Applicant's concern. I don't 6 think adding two feet or three feet would make that big a 7 difference. I do know that if this request goes through, 8 the opposite corner would be coming in front of us asking 9 for the same thing. 10 Looking at the Mobil Station sign at the 11 corner of Haggerty and Grand River, I went out and 12 measured it the other day just for a comparison. It is 13 just around eight foot as well. So, with that in mind I 14 would say I am not opposed to the Variance request. 15 And that is my comment. 16 Member Canup, do you care to make a 17 Motion? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Any further discussion? I 19 would make a Motion that in Case number: 07-017 that we 20 deny the request as stated due to an insufficient 21 hardship. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Motion on the floor. 23 Any seconds? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: I will second. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
20 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Sanghvi has 2 second it. Member Canup has made the Motion. 3 Further discussion? Mr. Schultz? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a comment on the 5 comments Mr. Canup made before he made the Motion would 6 be a good factual finding to add to the Motion, so I 7 would just ask that the record reflect that. 8 MEMBER CANUP: Let the record reflect that 9 if it's agreeable to the second, that the reason for 10 denying the variance is that fact that the brushes can be 11 trimmed and the sign can be raised one foot and still be 12 within the Ordinance. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: I agree. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's all been 15 accepted. Any further discussion? 16 Please read the roll. 17 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 21 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No. 23 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
21 1 MS. WORKING: Vice-chair Fisher? 2 VICE-CHAIR FISHER: Aye. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Motion to deny passes 5-1. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: City attorney, can 6 we at this point or is there a further Motion that is 7 needed since he is falling within the guidelines of 8 allowing a foot raised? 9 MR. SCHULTZ: I actually don't believe so 10 here. If he can do the one foot and certainly he doesn't 11 need authority to trim those bushes. They probably are 12 on the site plant, but they could be trimmed. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I just wanted to 14 make sure we were clear. Thank you. 15 MEMBER CANUP: Mr. Chair, I think what I 16 would recommend that we do is reviewed by Ordinance. And 17 if Mr. Amolsch finds that the brushes can't be trimmed, 18 then I think at that point we should take a second look 19 at it and maybe have to grant a variance to trim those 20 bushes. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We do have the right 22 to reopen the Motion at the next meeting if need be; is 23 that correct? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Twenty days. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
22 1 MR. SCHULTZ: If we actually found out 2 that those bushes could not be trimmed, which is one of 3 the assumptions of the Motion, sure, we try to make it at 4 that time. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. I don't know 6 if the Applicant is still here to hear that. I am sure 7 the City will send something to him. 8 Thank you. 9 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Our next case is 11 Case number: 07-018 filed by David Suhr at 22565 12 Winfield Road. Applicant is appealing a decision made by 13 the Building Official authorizing a basketball apparatus 14 located at 22565 Winfield Road in the Village Oaks 15 Subdivision. The property is zoned R-3 and located north 16 of Nine Mile and west of Haggerty Road. 17 City of Novi Code of Ordinances Section 18 3102 Appeal states: An appeal may be taken to the Zoning 19 Board of Appeals by any person, firm or corporation, or 20 by any officer, department, board or bureau affected by a 21 decision of the Building Official. 22 Ordinance states Section 3104.1.a, 23 Administrative Review states: The Zoning Board of 24 Appeals shall hear and decide appeals where it is alleged LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
23 1 by the Appellant that there is an error in any order, 2 requirement, permit, decision or refusal made by the 3 Building Official or any other administrative official in 4 carrying out or enforcing any provisions of this 5 Ordinance. 6 The Applicant is appealing a decision made 7 by the Building Official authorizing a basketball 8 apparatus in the side yard of the home at 22565 Winfield 9 Road. 10 Is the Applicant present? 11 MR. SUHR: Yes, sir. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please come forward 13 and if you are not an attorney state your name and 14 address and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 15 MR. SUHR: Thank you. My name is David 16 Suhr. I am not an attorney. My address is 22581 17 Winfield, Novi, Michigan 48375. 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISHER: If you can raise 19 your hand, please. Do you swear to tell the truth in 20 Case number: 07-018? 21 MR. SUHR: I do. 22 VICE CHAIRPERSON FISHER: Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 24 case. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
24 1 MR. SUHR: Thank you for hearing the case, 2 first of all. And actually if it pleases the Board I 3 would like to ask for a slight extension on the 4 five minutes. I think it's going to take me about eight 5 if that pleases you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you representing 7 a group of people here? 8 MR. SUHR: No. 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, I 10 would recommend that the Petitioner continue with his 11 presentation and at that time should the 5-minute mark 12 hit, he can ask for your grant of an extension if we deem 13 it necessary. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And I will consider 15 it at that time. 16 MR. SUHR: Thank you. About a year ago a 17 neighbor directly to the south at 22565 Winfield informed 18 the immediate neighbors of his intentions to build a 19 1,350 square foot sports court basketball court in the 20 rear corner of his lot with a 3-foot setback from my 21 property line and my neighbor's. 22 That equals a full collegiate half court. 23 Since then the court has been shrunk due to the decision 24 made by the Building Official in the recommendation. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
25 1 If you can look at the drawing here, it 2 does have the width of the court but it does not have the 3 length, so I can't determine the exact length of the 4 court square footage. But I am assuming it's 1,000 5 square feet. That is still almost the size of some homes 6 in our subdivision. 7 Needless to say, this is a massive, 8 massive structure. And it's going to be situated between 9 our two homes. If you can see this here. I am trying to 10 show my home in relation to the court here. 11 My feeling is this is not a good idea for 12 very many reasons. Number one, it's going to be an eye 13 sore to the community. As you can see here it's going to 14 take up a large large portion of the grass replacing that 15 with tile. It just does not fit within the community. 16 It's going to be obtrusive to the 17 neighborhood. Any structure this big is going to be very 18 prominent and make a big impact on the neighborhood. 19 Number two, it is also going to affect the 20 drainage. If you can see the contrast between the two 21 lawns there, that's actually where a swale is, it happens 22 to be the dampest part of my lawn and of 22565 Winfield's 23 homeowner which is kind of a level court. He is going to 24 have to build up the side there as it slants towards my LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
26 1 yard. That's going to create a large amount of runoff 2 into my yard. 3 And, of course, we are taking away dirt 4 and grass that actually absorbs the water and replacing 5 it with tile you are going to have an increased amount of 6 water no matter where you put this court. That being 7 said, this also violates numerous City Ordinances. 8 First, I would like to state that this 9 basketball court is a structure. Novi Ordinance set 10 forth in Article 2 Section 201 to wit: A structure is 11 anything constructed or erected use of which requires 12 location on the ground or attachment of something at the 13 location on the ground. 14 When you are pouring concrete like this 15 you are going to have to excavate it. You are going to 16 have to put in pea gravel or crushed concrete. You may 17 have to pour a footing for something this big, maybe not, 18 but this is definitely attached to the ground. 19 Another Ordinance it violates is Article 20 25 Section 2503-2A. And this Ruling states the effect 21 that unless my neighbor receives a variance from the 22 Zoning Board of Appeals, a cement basketball court must 23 be located in the back yard. 24 The Ordinance reads in this respect: Any LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
27 1 accessory, structure, except for otherwise committed and 2 regulated in this Ordinance shall be located in the rear 3 yard and shall meet the setback requirements of any 4 accessory building. 5 My neighbor did not want to put it in his 6 backyard. And I can't speak for him, but off of the 7 drawings that he submitted, he has a deck which is 8 currently under construction which is in there and that 9 is prohibiting him from putting this structure in the 10 backyard. 11 Article 29 -- Section 2911 of the Zoning 12 Ordinance contains an exception for the basketball 13 location. The basketball apparatus -- this is what the 14 Ordinance reads, consist of a single backboard, hoop and 15 net that may project into the front yard or side yard 16 setback area, but not directly on the garage. As an 17 alternative to a garage mount apparatus, a single pole 18 mounted backboard, hoop and net may be erected provided 19 it's located only in the one half of front yard or side 20 yard lawful setback nearest the dwelling and is 21 contiguous to the driveway. 22 This clearly does not meet those. In 23 fact, my neighbor would have had to get a variance to 24 place his basketball court on the side yard, which he has LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
28 1 not done. 2 Speaking to the word contiguous which is 3 touching, this clearly is not touching the driveway. The 4 Building Official had made the recommendation that he 5 make a path from his driveway to this court to make it 6 contiguous, however, I don't consider that contiguous. 7 By that logic, the basketball hoop is 8 contiguous to every subdivision in the driveway including 9 mine because there all connected by the street. Some 10 people might say, well, you know what, there is cement 11 slabs in other places in the suburb or the city, and that 12 is true, I mean, that can't be denied. However, and not 13 to compare this to a crime, but if five people were to 14 commit a crime and the sixth person got away with it and 15 the sixth person said, well, why can't I get away with 16 it, the other five people did? That wouldn't stand. So 17 I don't think we can really compare this to any other 18 situation and I don't think the Board would do that 19 anyway. 20 The intent of Section 2911 is clear. If 21 the apparatus is not on the garage it must be located 22 contiguous to the driveway. Which I covered. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Suhr. 24 MR. SUHR: Yeah. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
29 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, it's 2 been five minutes. 3 You may ask for a five-minute extension if 4 you wish. 5 MR. SUHR: Could I have a three-minute 6 extension, please, Mr. Chair? 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do you think you can 8 wrap it up in three? 9 MR. SUHR: Yes. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, you may. 11 MR. SUHR: Okay. In addition to the 12 proposed installation of the cement court, it's proposed 13 as three feet of the side property line. The zone or 14 residential or R-3 is a 10-foot setback. This is only a 15 3-foot setback, which is another Ordinance it violates. 16 There is a handful of others, but due to time constraints 17 I won't read off the entire list. 18 You know, really, it should be, I feel, 19 Mr. Turner up here requesting a variance and not me. I 20 believe the Building Official erred in granting this Land 21 Use Permit. All these Ordinances were ignored. 22 I have tried to negotiate with Mr. Turner, 23 but he is not willing to compromise on the size of the 24 court. I really just feel that there are other options LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
30 1 besides the placement and the size of this court for him. 2 It's not an end all thing where there is no other 3 options. I think he does have other options. 4 And really I'm just not asking for any 5 favors. I am just asking for the Ordinance to be applied 6 to this situation. Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 8 At this point before I go into the 9 audience, I would like to ask our City Attorney to give 10 us some information regarding what we can review this 11 evening and what we can't. 12 MR. SCHULTZ: We did do a letter on this 13 one. This is probably one of the issues that got a lot 14 of administrative discussion as well before the Land 15 Improvement Permit was issued. 16 And I think that's the key place to start. 17 Mr. Suhr started with the picture that shows where the 18 slab is going to be. He indicated that he had some 19 concerns about drainage. It's important for the Board 20 and the public to understand and the Applicant, that the 21 authorization for the placement of that slab was not done 22 by the Building Official under the Zoning Ordinance. 23 As you know you have jurisdiction as the 24 Zoning Board of Appeals to review decisions that somebody LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
31 1 makes whether it's the Building Official or the Planning 2 Commission or the Planning Director under the Zoning 3 Ordinance. The decision to allow that to determine that 4 the drainage was acceptable because it had been reviewed 5 by the City Engineer and Consulting Engineer as well, was 6 under Chapter 12 of the City Code as to which appeals go 7 elsewhere, and to the City (Unintelligible). 8 So that question, should there be a cement 9 slab in the side yard is not something that is before the 10 Board directly. 11 In terms of whether it's a permitted 12 thing, Mr. Suhr commented that from his perspective it's 13 a structure. As we pointed out in our letter, the Zoning 14 Ordinance which is where the definition of structure is 15 permits this kind of an access, cement slab in a side 16 yard, in a front yard and frankly in a rear yard. 17 And when the Building Official looked at 18 that and decided that it was not prohibited by the Zoning 19 Ordinance and then authorized it under the City Code, he 20 was looking at those provisions that would allow the 21 property owner here to not just put that cement slab 22 there, but more cement elsewhere whether it's in the rear 23 yard or the front yard. And he made a determination that 24 this was appropriate in this side yard because the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
32 1 alternative may be worse for everyone. 2 With regard to whether it's specifically 3 either this or the basketball apparatus was an accessory 4 structure, again, let's maybe circumvent an additional 5 issue to the structure question. But, again, I think the 6 Building Official looked at the Zoning Ordinance which 7 says: Access drives, pavement in the side yard, not just 8 is silent, it says it's not a structure, shall not be 9 considered a structure. So he didn't look at it as an 10 accessory structure. So the Permit to have the slab 11 there was authorized by a different Ordinance with a 12 determination that it wasn't prohibited by the Zoning 13 Ordinance. Again, a fair amount of administrative input 14 to that. 15 Technically that's a not a question that's 16 before you. I just wanted to make sure everybody had 17 that issue, because the issues of permit are under a 18 different Ordinance. 19 With regard to the basketball apparatus 20 which is essentially how we have noticed this particular 21 here, the Building Official had to also ask the question, 22 is that somehow a structure that can't be in the side 23 here where it is shown on the drawing? And as to that, 24 as Mr. Suhr pointed out, the Building Official looked at LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
33 1 Section 2911 of the Ordinance. You have to read it a few 2 times to sort of understand the way it flows. 3 But essentially what it does is it 4 addresses situations. It doesn't call a basketball hoop 5 on a garage or in a side yard a structure. The whole 6 Zoning Ordinance is silent to that question except or 7 unless you want to put one of those in a side yard 8 setback. And I think that is where a little bit of 9 confusion is crapped in here. 10 As the Board knows you have got a side 11 yard which in this case can be 30 feet, it is 30 feet. 12 There is a side yard setback where nothing can be placed 13 which in this R-3 district is the 10 feet closest to Mr. 14 Suhr's property line. 15 Section 2911 deals with that 10 feet. So 16 if the house were right at that 10-foot setback and the 17 property owner wanted to put a full mounted basketball 18 apparatus in the 10-foot side yard setback, Section 2911 19 would apply. And actually would permit it. 20 But here, the house is set well back on to 21 the setback. The hoop, the apparatus is well out of the 22 setback. By its terms 2911 doesn't apply and the 23 Building Official said, well, we have got hoops on 24 garages that are well out of the setback. We have got LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
34 1 poles that are not in setbacks all over this town. We 2 have not regulated basketball apparatuses unless they're 3 in the setback. 4 So, we allowed the drawing of the 5 apparatus to be on the drawing for the Land Improvement 6 Permit. Theoretically the Board could review the 7 decision to allow the basketball apparatus here up 8 against the house. In order to say it was improper you 9 would have to say somehow that it wasn't permitted 10 because it is an accessory structure or because 2911 11 applies. And I think from the Building Official's 12 perspective it was a fairly clear-cut call and that it's 13 not governed under 2911. It's not been treated as an 14 accessory structure to anybody's knowledge under the 15 Zoning Ordinance before. And he had no basis to say it 16 couldn't be put there. 17 So, that's sort of the outline of the 18 Building Official's thinking. I think that hits all of 19 the points in the Appeal about the accessory structure 20 and the drainage and whatnot. 21 This is one of those issues where I think 22 what the Building Official did was actually attempt to 23 sort of alleviate the situation by trying to negotiate a 24 little bit less pavement than the property owner might LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
35 1 otherwise be able to put in there. And I think if we 2 say, okay, this isn't a driveway or this is an accessory 3 structure, the remedy might be, let's just call it a 4 driveway and then we can put our hoop closer to the side 5 yard setback of the Applicant's property. I think the 6 Building Official decided this is a pretty reasonable 7 compromise and maybe even (unintelligible). 8 That is kind of the overview from Building 9 Official's perspective. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. I 11 appreciate that. 12 At this point I would like to open it up 13 to the audience. Anyone who cares to make a comment, 14 please signify by raising your hand. 15 Yes, ma'am? Would you like to come 16 forward and state your name and address and be sworn in. 17 MS. MASONVILLE: Good evening, my name is 18 Lynn Masonville. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Ma'am, I'm sorry, 20 could you hold on just a second? 21 MS. MASONVILLE: Sure. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Please 23 go ahead. 24 MS. MASONVILLE: My name is Lynn LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
36 1 Masonville. I live at 22562 Deerfield in Novi. I live 2 behind Mr. and Mrs. Turner, my husband and I do. 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Ma'am, if I can 4 swear you in quickly. If I can swear you in quickly, 5 please. 6 MS. MASONVILLE: Oh, I'm sorry. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 8 tell the truth in Case number: 07-018? 9 MS. MASONVILLE: I do. 10 I am just going to read something that 11 Rick and I have put together, so, bear with me. We are 12 in support of Mr. David Suhr's request and are against 13 the building of the basketball court proposed by Mr. 14 Turner for several reasons. 15 The property value of our house would be 16 reduced. Last summer a realtor from Caldwell Banker 17 visited our home and drafted a letter stating that the 18 basketball court would change our property from an ideal 19 interior subdivision location to a location that was much 20 less desirable similar to a home backing to a busy road. 21 The realtor stated that the reduction could be as much as 22 10 percent. And I do have his letter with me this 23 evening. 24 Secondly, the size of the court is LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
37 1 inappropriate for the neighborhood. We're not even a 2 quarter of an acre lot size. It's a huge 1,350 square 3 foot court and it's greater than the combination of the 4 footprint of Mr. and Mrs. Turner's home and their garage 5 put together. Very close, but just about the same size 6 or a little bit larger. 7 We also feel that there was a lack of 8 compliance to the processes and rules from the City of 9 Novi. That no engineering plot plans were submitted as 10 required by the Minor Land Improvement Permit 11 application. And the proposed court is not contiguous to 12 the driveway, although that's been addressed. 13 And, lastly, we have an analogy that we 14 all value our First Amendment right of speech, but we all 15 know that that right doesn't permit people to yell fire 16 in a crowded theater. Similarly, we all have the right 17 to use our land as we see fit. But when that right 18 negatively impacts our neighbors, reason and compromise 19 should prevail and we would hope that a smaller court 20 size would be acceptable to everyone. It's a very large 21 thing. 22 I also have a couple of -- two of the 23 letters that were sent out from our neighbors and was 24 told that I could submit these also tonight. So, let me LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
38 1 know what I am supposed to do with them. And I thank 2 you. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Just bring them 4 forward and give them to our Secretary. I appreciate it. 5 Thank you. 6 MS. MASONVILLE: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I believe there is 8 someone else. Over here, okay. 9 State your name and address and be sworn 10 in by the Vice-Chair. 11 MS. YOOTS (ph): Hello, my name is Susan 12 Yoots. I live at 22544 Deerfield in Novi, Michigan. 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could 14 raise your hand for me. Do you swear to tell the truth 15 regarding Case number: 07-018? 16 MS. YOOTS: I do. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thanks. 18 MS. YOOTS: I also support Mr. Suhr's 19 appeal here. As Mrs. Masonville stated earlier, our lot 20 sizes are quite small. A quarter acre at best. I did 21 have an opportunity this weekend to see one of these 22 basketball courts that Mr. Turner wants to build. It is 23 very large. And it is extremely colorful. 24 I love sitting out in my backyard in the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
39 1 summertime. And love listening to the birds and enjoying 2 nature and just enjoy being outside. I don't understand 3 why a post with a basketball hoop on it isn't sufficient. 4 The court that I did get to see it was on 5 a three acre lot, that's okay. Not in our subdivision. 6 Not in my backyard. My backyard corner abuts up to Mr. 7 Turner's backyard. 8 I also feel that when you said that this 9 was a basketball apparatus was a little misleading, I 10 interpret that to be a post and a hoop. This is not what 11 it is. It's a very large court. And a lot of noise is 12 going to be generated. 13 He is also planning on building stands. 14 And I don't want it in my subdivision. I don't want it 15 in my backyard. I don't want to listen to the noise. 16 I also have another petition here that one 17 of my neighbors has filled out if I can submit that also. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is in addition 19 to the ones we have in our packet? 20 MS. YOOTS: Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Someone else care to 22 speak? Ma'am, in the front. 23 MS. HALBERSON (ph): I don't have any 24 letters. I am Judy Halberson 22567 Heatherwood. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
40 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Excuse me, what was 2 the last name again? 3 MS. HALBERSON: Halberson. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 6 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 7 MS. HALBERSON: I do. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 9 MS. HALBERSON: I just wanted to say that 10 I also too am opposed to this and have been involved in 11 this from the beginning. I lived in Village Oaks for 25 12 years and I have served on our Board and Council for many 13 many years. 14 And my main objection is that none of the 15 process was followed. There has been no drainage study 16 done. We are relying on a drainage study that was 17 submitted to the County 35 years ago when the association 18 was built. The Application wasn't followed. The 19 Ordinance are different. You say it's not a basketball 20 court, it's a slab of cement, but every piece of 21 paperwork refers to it as a basketball court. It's got 22 all the lines, it's got the markings, it's got the hoop, 23 it's a basketball court. And moving it up to the front, 24 I don't know from the pictures you can tell, but that LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
41 1 puts it less than 30 feet to the street. 2 I mean, on our streets, our land, there is 3 no space. Every single stray ball that bounces off that 4 court is going to land in the neighbor's driveway. So, 5 he would have to not park his car there when there are 6 games going on. It creates a lot of disturbance. 7 My main concern is that I would like to 8 know that our City and our leaders and all of you follow 9 the Ordinances and the rules that you have established. 10 The things I heard tonight were all about the Ordinances. 11 Yeah, we reached every little speck of gray area we can 12 to grant this. I would like it looked at. At least at 13 the very end of the picture to make sure that it's done 14 right and that the drainage studies are done so we know 15 we are not going to have flooding basements and things 16 when we are done. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 19 Yes, sir? 20 MR. MENZ (ph): My name is John Menz 22566 21 Winfield Drive, Novi, Michigan, 48375. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 23 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 24 MR. MENZ: I do. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
42 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 2 MR. MENZ: I am here in support of my 3 community, and in support of Mr. Turner, Bruce. I live 4 directly across from the property in question. And my 5 opinion is just strictly upon the idea of it being an eye 6 sore. I am really the only one that is going to be 7 looking at it directly, and I don't have a problem with 8 it. There are lots of eye sores in Village Oaks 9 according to me and my opinions, but I can't bring up 10 every one of them. I am sure my property has eye sores 11 too. 12 I don't have a problem with it. I admire 13 Bruce and the fact that he actually notified us a year 14 ago, something he didn't have to do, a very professional 15 color print that was delivered to each one of us 16 notifying us of his potential to do this in his side 17 yard. And I just wanted to be public here and tell the 18 Board, Council, that I have no problem with it. I don't 19 think it's going to be an eye sore. I don't think it's 20 going to depreciate our property values any more than 21 Ford Motor Company or General Motors or Chrysler has, and 22 unfortunately we can't bring them before the Board. 23 But I don't think it's going to decrease 24 it by 10 percent. According to Mr. Turner's drawing, he LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
43 1 does plan and I have all the confidence in the world that 2 he will do this, is to erect landscaping and things to 3 shield the eye soreness, and I know that's not a word, 4 from my house and keep basketballs from flying into the 5 street. 6 And Mr. Turner has lived there for about a 7 year and I never heard a peep from them. And I don't 8 think there will be lots of noise or anything other than 9 what he has been doing so far. He has two little boys 10 that are probably two and three years old. I don't think 11 they are going to cause a lot of noise. 12 And I am in support of Mr. Turner, not 13 against my other neighbors. I love everyone. I think 14 there is a sense of community in Village Oaks that I 15 enjoy very much. 16 And from the eye sore particularly, I 17 don't have a problem with it. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 19 We have another gentleman. Yes, sir? 20 MR. MASONVILLE: Hello. My name is 21 Richard Masonville, 22562 Deerfield, Novi. And I live 22 directly behind the Turners, okay. I will keep my 23 commits brief. But regarding home value -- 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sir, can we have you LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
44 1 sworn in, please. 2 MR. MASONVILLE: Oh, I'm sorry. 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 4 tell the truth in Case number: 07-018? 5 MR. MASONVILLE: Yes, I do. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 7 MR. MASONVILLE: Regarding home values, if 8 any of you were to stand in Mr. Suhr's driveway or in his 9 living room for that matter, he would have a very good 10 view of this proposed basketball court. Like my wife 11 said, that exceeds this footprint of the house and garage 12 combined. It's just plan huge. And anybody that were to 13 stand in David's driveway would conclude that he would 14 have a very difficult time selling his house because 15 people would not want to buy it. And that equates to a 16 decrease in land, decrease in values. 17 And I had a realtor whom I did not know, 18 it was not a friend, I was a client of his, a year ago he 19 said that there could be as much as 10 percent. Whether 20 it's 10 percent of five percent, for me or for David, I 21 don't know why the neighbors should bear the price of 22 seeing their land values reduced especially in the 23 economic market we got today. I just don't think that's 24 appropriate. Thank you. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
45 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 2 Anyone else in the audience? Yes sir, 3 back in the back? Okay, the gentleman in the yellow 4 shirt. Go ahead. 5 Sir, if you want to come up front and 6 speak after this gentleman, that would be fine. 7 Yes, sir. 8 MR. GRAFF (ph): Good evening, my name is 9 Steve Graff. I live on 22533 Winfield, Novi. I am about 10 three or four doors away. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Would you raise 12 your hand for me. Do you swear to tell the truth 13 regarding Case number: 07-018? 14 MR. GRAFF: I do. 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 16 MR. GRAFF: My vote is no on this Zoning 17 variance. Myself as a homeowner does not want a 18 basketball sports club in this neighborhood. Very 19 clearly the Permit violates numerous City Ordinances and 20 the Village Oaks declaration of covenants, conditions and 21 restrictions. 22 These limitations were in effect long 23 before 2006 and are imposed on all City and Village Oaks 24 residents. Documentation is readily available to any LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
46 1 perspective Village Oaks' homeowner. 2 Spending, let's say $20,000 to lower the 3 property value of 10 to 20 homes by an estimated, let's 4 say 10 percent and lower the remaining house values of 5 the 80 plus homes in the neighborhood is irresponsible. 6 If you don't understand how the appraisal 7 process works, it isn't one home that loses value, it's a 8 whole bunch of them. Great neighbors avoid these 9 actions. Failure to follow laws or enforced Ordinances 10 invites another sandstorm debacle. Novi residents do not 11 need another financial loss and embarrassment. 12 That's my statement. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, sir? 14 MR. YOOTS (ph): My name is Carl Yoots, 15 22544 Deerfield Road, Novi. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 17 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 18 MR. YOOTS: I do. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 20 MR. YOOTS: I just want to give a personal 21 observation. I have been a resident of Village Oaks for 22 nearly 35 years. During that time I have spent nearly 23 three years in charge of the Architectural Committee of 24 the Executive Council. During that time I had people LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
47 1 make applications to put in fences, to put additions on 2 their homes, to put up basketball courts, numerous other 3 things. And we were given the authority by our Executive 4 Council Board of Directors to determine whether to 5 approve or disapprove of these additions. 6 During that time there were people that 7 had home additions, some of them were not within the 8 scope of what we thought they should be. One man had a 9 roof coming in where the peak was above the peak of his 10 existing roof. We denied it. He went back to the 11 architect, got it redone. We approved it, that was fine. 12 Putting up fences, we forbid people to put 13 up certain kind of fences, they obeyed the thing. Never 14 do I remember anyone thumbing their nose at our Council 15 and Board of Directors before. And I believe that he was 16 denied permission to do this from the subdivision. 17 And so, I, of course, support the request 18 of the subdivision not to do this. And, so, I am a 19 little disappointed that this thing has gotten this far. 20 That Mr. Turner has pursued this when he knows that most 21 of his neighbors do not want to have that size of a 22 concrete slab in their yard -- in the adjacent yards. 23 So, thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
48 1 Yes, sir? 2 MR. STARKEY (ph): Dennis Starkey, 22529 3 Deerfield. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 5 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 6 MR. STARKEY: I do. Basically, I had 7 assumed that the subdivision had taken care of this 8 because I had heard about the rumors about this some time 9 ago and they had denied it and I was kind of surprised 10 when I saw that it actually, that it somehow found the 11 way to get around most of the rules. 12 But my feeling is this. It's just too 13 large for a residential. Residential you think 100 14 square feet, maybe 150 square feet where the neighborhood 15 kids can play ball. This is more along the lines of a 16 sports or a commercial enterprise. This is not in 17 keeping with the residents in the nice City of Novi. I 18 like the City of Novi. I like the neighborhood I'm in. 19 It's nice and quiet and I don't think this really 20 conforms to that. Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 22 Anyone else? Yes, sir. 23 MR. HEFLER (ph): My name is Craig Hefler, 24 22532 Winfield in Novi. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
49 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 2 tell the truth in Case number: 07-018? 3 MR. HEFLER: Yes, I do. I live two doors 4 down and across the street from Bruce and Tiara. They 5 have been excellent neighbors. We met them when they 6 first moved in and we're very happy to have them in the 7 neighborhood. 8 However, I am against this basketball 9 court going in. I don't think it's in fitting with the 10 other homes that are in the neighborhood. We have 11 nothing that large there. I have sons who have been 12 involved in sports as I have myself, both with soccer, 13 with lacrosse, with football, and we have a basketball 14 hoop on the side of our driveway. And have very much 15 enjoyed using that. However, a court of this size just 16 does not fit in that neighborhood. And I would like to 17 see the things that were decided by the Village Oaks 18 Board upheld. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 20 Anyone else? No? Okay, at this point -- 21 Yes? 22 MR. TURNER: Hello, Bruce Turner at 22565 23 Winfield Road. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
50 1 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 2 MR. TURNER: Yes, I do. 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 4 MR. TURNER: I have a prepared statement 5 that I would like to read, if you don't mind. 6 We, the Turners, my wife and I bought the 7 property at 22565 Winfield Road after a pretty intense 8 search for the right house and the right neighborhood. 9 The 22565 Winfield property was not ideal due to the many 10 renovations that needed to be made. 11 In fact, there was a much nicer property 12 across the street that was in much better shape. The 13 decision boiled down to basically one thing. The 22565 14 Winfield property would afford us the room to build a 15 half court basketball court next to or behind our home. 16 We moved in in September of 2005. In 17 April, 2006 we began this process. After talking with 18 the architectural chairperson for Village Oaks we sent a 19 letter to our immediate neighbors to let them know what 20 we had planned for our yard including the renovations we 21 had planned for the deck on the back of the house. 22 Subsequently those same neighbors were the 23 authors of a Petition that you may have in your hands 24 right now. After a pretty heated meeting with the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
51 1 Village Oaks Board and some area neighbors, we were 2 denied approval from our homeowners association in June 3 of 2006. 4 The City of Novi granted the Land 5 Improvement Permit in July of 2006, but we were not 6 allowed to take physical possession of said Permit until 7 the City of Novi notified Village Oaks of their decision. 8 Within a week I received notice that I should appear in 9 court. The subdivision had now filed an injunction 10 against us. 11 The court dismissed the injunction in 12 October of 2006. And found that it would cause more harm 13 not to allow us to build on our own property. 14 Soon after I was informed by the Board 15 that no further legal action would be taken against our 16 plans to build. We took physical possession of the Land 17 Improvement Permit in November of 2006, but due to the 18 lateness of the year we postponed building until the 19 Spring of '07. 20 In March of '07 when the weather broke and 21 with permit in hand, I had a few contractors begin to 22 make bids on a job. The Appellant, David Suhr and his 23 friends on the Village Oaks Board called Local 4, WDIV in 24 an attempt cast a negative light on our plans. The story LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
52 1 which aired on the 6 p.m. news actually showed our plans 2 in a very good light, and this attempt to shed a negative 3 spotlight on our intentions to build actually proved to 4 be beneficial to us. 5 This type of activity by our neighbors has 6 only heightened the animosity and this issue has become 7 deeply personal. I believe that a very vocal minority of 8 my neighbors will do and say just about anything to 9 perpetuate the negativity in this situation. 10 I know of at least nine other basketball 11 courts in my subdivision. Many of these courts were 12 built without an approval from Village Oaks or the City 13 of Novi. There is a basketball apparatus just two 14 streets over from mine which was built about three years 15 ago complete with outdoor lights and everything. And no 16 approval from Village Oaks or the City of Novi was ever 17 garnered. It is shocking to me that my subdivision and 18 my neighbors have come after my plans with such vigor and 19 vitriol. 20 If the issue was really about a basketball 21 court not fitting in with the neighborhood surroundings 22 or that basketball courts cause depreciation of home 23 values or drainage issues, then I would expect that my 24 neighbors and Village Oaks would pursue this matter with LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
53 1 all of those that have basketball courts or swimming 2 pools for that matter. To date they have not. And I 3 dare say, they will not. 4 I heard one of my neighbors talk about me 5 building stands. That is just incorrect. Another talked 6 about the colorful nature of the basketball court. The 7 tiles will be green we did that on purpose so they would 8 fit in with the grass that will be next to it. 9 Someone else talked about the danger of 10 having this court and balls running into the street. 11 Well, that's really why we wanted to have a basketball 12 court so our balls wouldn't be running down the driveway 13 into the street. This way, they will not. 14 Furthermore, the Ordinance of the City do 15 not in any way preclude the construction of a personal 16 basketball apparatus on my property. These tactics have 17 only served to drive a wedge between a new resident of 18 Novi and his neighbors. 19 This Zoning Board Appeal just like the 20 Petition that was included in this appeal -- 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Turner -- 22 MR. TURNER: Yes. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You have 24 reached five minutes. If you like you can request LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
54 1 additional time -- 2 MR. TURNER: I just need a few more 3 minutes if I could. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You can have up to 5 three. 6 MR. TURNER: This Zoning Board Appeal just 7 like the Petition that was included in this Appeal 8 including mostly Deerfield signatures from about eight or 9 so households and only two of the neighbors on our 10 Winfield street, the Appellant, David Suhr, and his good 11 friend directly across the street. In fact, I have been 12 told by many of the neighbors that they have refused to 13 sign such a Petition. The denial of approval to build by 14 Village Oaks, the injunctive lawsuit filed by Village 15 Oaks which was dismissed by the Oakland County Circuit 16 Court, and the most recent attempt to involve the local 17 media, WDIV Local 4 are all obvious and I believe 18 underhanded attempts to delay and cast dispersions on the 19 construction of our basketball apparatus. 20 I urge this the Board not to assist their 21 attempts to delay our plans any further. I only ask that 22 this Board rule in favor of the Permit that has already 23 been granted and extended and allow us the enjoyment of 24 our property. Thank you. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
55 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. 2 Turner. 3 And last -- okay, we have another lady. 4 Please come forward. 5 Why didn't you all put up your hands when 6 I first asked? One at a time. 7 Yes, ma'am? 8 MS. HEPLER (ph): Hello, I am Lynn Hepler, 9 22532 Winfield. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 11 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 12 MS. HEPLER: Yes, I do. 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 14 MS. HELPER: Okay, we have been homeowners 15 here in Novi for 19 years. We just recently paid off our 16 house and I thought it was such a great feeling. I am 17 thinking, geez, we have really accrued a lot of value in 18 our home. And I have a big issue with this because we 19 were never made aware of this until I saw the yellow 20 tape. We live two houses down across the street, as far 21 as the basketball court going in. 22 And then David came to our home to make us 23 aware of it. I had seen the yellow tape out there. I 24 had seen WDIV or whatever it was, Channel 4. And I LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
56 1 thought something is going on. And I saw the tape and 2 I'm thinking what's -- you know, what it going on because 3 I was never made aware of this about the basketball 4 court. So, I don't know that everybody was truly aware 5 of what was going on. I think this was going on with the 6 immediate neighbors which were just the immediate 7 neighbors right next door and maybe across the street 8 where John lives. 9 But I do have a problem with it just 10 because it does not fit with the neighborhood. It is 11 going to bring the property values down. 12 And like I said, I think it's important 13 that we are good neighbors to each other and that we talk 14 about things and that we look at it how it's going to 15 affect everybody. 16 And basically I was looking through the 17 packet because David was able to give us some information 18 because I knew nothing about it. The Land Permit, it 19 says a Land Improvement Permit. I ask you as Board 20 Members if you would like a 40 by 35 court is it? 40 by 21 35 yard -- 40 feet wide -- 45 feet wide. Anyways, as 22 large as that court is going to be, would you like that 23 next to you? And what it would do to the property 24 values. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
57 1 I am really concerned about that since I 2 have since paid my home off. I plan on living here in 3 Novi, enjoy myself. I really enjoy the neighbors, but 4 like I said, I don't want to when I go to sell, it hinder 5 what I could get for my home. Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 7 One last time. Yes, ma'am? 8 MS. GRAFF: My name is Penny Graff. I'm at 9 22533 Winfield. Second door down from where the 10 basketball court is going to be. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 12 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-018? 13 MS. GRAFF: Yes, I do. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 15 MS. GRAFF: After listening to everybody 16 here tonight I wasn't going to get up and talk but I 17 really feel like I have to address a couple of things. 18 Number one, originally my thought was it 19 was going to be a backyard basketball court. I would 20 venture to say that every single court that Mr. Turner 21 saw that was built in is in the backyard. And if you 22 want to put it in the backyard. I'm sorry, I know that 23 -- if it has to be, it has to be backyard and not side 24 yard. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
58 1 To say, to even think that it wouldn't 2 have an affect on property values it almost seems 3 ludicrous. It's huge, it's so out of proportion for the 4 neighborhood, but it's not going to matter? Since the 5 original paperwork said backyard, I don't know how it got 6 moved to the side yard. I think that is something that 7 has to be looked at too. 8 I'm against it, I don't think it fits, but 9 if it's going to fit, you may have to change your deck 10 plans a little bit, put it in the backyard where it's not 11 going to be as disruptive to all the different property 12 values. 13 That's all I have. Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 15 Mr. Hines, would you care to make a 16 comment before we move on? 17 MR. HINES: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would 18 like to add to Mr. Schultz's comment. Being the Building 19 Official for the City of Novi I wanted to make a comment 20 that our Zoning Ordinances have to be in harmony with our 21 Building Code. And we are required actually to submit 22 those to the Bureau of Construction Codes for their 23 review to make sure that they are harmonious with our 24 Building Codes. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
59 1 We have never considered a driveway or a 2 sidewalk or a concrete slab a structure, nor have we 3 considered a basketball hoop a structure. 4 And let me just give you part of the Building Code. And 5 I know this is not a Zoning issue, but again, it relates 6 to the Zoning because the Zoning issues have to be in 7 harmony with the Building Code. And this is how we have 8 looked at it as a basis as part of our decision. 9 The Code requires structures to be 10 permitted in this City and anywhere else in the state. 11 There are exceptions to that. Two exceptions are a 12 sidewalk or driveway that is not more than 30 inches 13 above the adjacent grade and is not over any basement or 14 story below is exempt from a Permit. 15 The other thing that is exempt from a 16 permit is swings and other playground equipment accessory 17 to one family dwellings. So, in our mind this is not a 18 structure. They have exempted these two items out 19 because they are not a structure. 20 We have looked at it and evaluated it that 21 way. I just want to bring that to the attention of the 22 Board. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 24 Mr. Schultz? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
60 1 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a follow-up to that. 2 But, first, is the Public Hearing closed? 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No. 4 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a comment on the 5 process that I should have made before, but I think 6 follows Mr. Hines' comments. 7 Usually this Board is sitting as sort of a 8 discretionary decision making body. Most of the other 9 things on the agenda tonight are variance requests. The 10 kinds of things where it's not only appropriate but 11 require that you take into account affect on property 12 values that's in the Ordinance or variance related, 13 affect on neighbors and things like that. 14 This is a different, unusual kind of thing 15 where you are sitting essentially more like a -- you are 16 sitting as an Appellant body deciding whether or not Mr. 17 Saven as the Building Official incorrectly read and 18 applied the Ordinance. And in order to find that he did 19 that under the Zoning Ordinance, not Chapter 12 of the 20 City Code with the cement slab and all that, you are 21 going to need to take into account whether or not you 22 have heard anything tonight or seen anything in the 23 materials that would indicate that the decision was 24 legally, that he was reading the Code provisions legally LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
61 1 incorrectly. 2 So, I think that kind of followups on Mr. 3 Hines' comments in terms of how they tend to look at 4 things in the Building Code. But you also need to look 5 at that Zoning Ordinance and say is there some decision 6 that Mr. Saven made here that was just wrong under the 7 Zoning Ordinance the way it reads. And as I said we kind 8 pointed out (Unintelligible) position. It was a pretty 9 considered opinion. But clearly that is your function 10 tonight and your decision to make. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 12 At this point I would like our Vice-Chair to review the 13 Notices that were sent and summarize the responses. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Excuse me. I 15 was going to say. You probably want to go one more time. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, last time. 17 Anybody want to speak? Okay. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Close it. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was going to let 20 this go into the record and then close it afterwards. 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, in 22 this case 39 notices were mailed. Four approvals and four 23 objections. 24 Approval Number 1, Robert and Denise Marks LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
62 1 of 22599 Winfield Road. We are strongly against the 2 construction of the basketball court. It would both be 3 an eye sore and a nuisance. We ask that the Board 4 reverse the earlier decision to allow the construction of 5 a basketball court that the Village Oaks Association and 6 many of the residents oppose. 7 Here it is, an approve/objection both are 8 circled by Elizabeth Lambert 22563 Deerfield Road. It is 9 too big for the size of our lots. Where will the rain 10 runoff go? 11 Dennis Starkey of 22529 Deerfield Road 12 states that: I am opposed the construction of the term 13 basketball apparatus. The size of this is more on a 14 scope of a commercial or sports zoned land and not 15 residential. This is also not an apparatus but an eye 16 sore and would devalue properties within several blocks 17 of the property. 18 This project is in violation of several 19 City Ordinances and against subdivision rules and the 20 subdivision is not in favor of it. 21 Additionally, there are questions and 22 concerns that the gentleman had regarding when the next 23 property assessments for tax collection purposes are done 24 due to the reduction of property values and states his LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
63 1 concern regarding such assessment. 2 Also there are also plans for flood 3 lighting so that they will be using this at night and 4 what Ordinances and times would they be breaking and 5 being a nuisance? 6 Lastly, in summary, I feel that a 7 basketball court of this magnitude is more suited for a 8 commercial site and will have detriment affects to the 9 City of Novi. 10 An objection by Stephen and Penny Graff of 11 22533 Winfield Road. This Village Oaks homeowner does not 12 want a basketball court in this neighborhood. Very 13 clearly this violates numerous City Ordinances and the 14 Village Oaks declaration of covenants. These limitations 15 were in affect long before now and all homeowners must 16 abide by those. 17 It also states concerns regarding the 18 property values in the area and has a concern for the 19 entire City of Novi and references the sandstone lawsuit. 20 It looks like that covers page four. 21 Let me note that one notice was also 22 returned. And if the City attorney feels and deems 23 appropriate I can read the ones that were dropped off 24 today. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
64 1 MR. SCHULTZ: Sure. It's up to the Chair. 2 Sure. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We would like to 4 show them as part of the record. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: An approval by 6 Karen McCortee (ph) I believe, 22510 Deerfield. 7 Approval. Play basketball at a park or at a school. 8 Neighbors don't need to listen to the noise. 9 Susan Yoots, 22540 Deerfield Road. 10 Approval. This is not a basketball apparatus defined 11 post and a hoop. It is a basketball court. The size of 12 a collegiate size court. 13 I believe that you are mistaken and 14 misleading and I do not believe that this is an 15 appropriate value for Mr. Turner's court. This is being 16 build so he can bring his youth basketball team here to 17 practice, not in my backyard. Can you imagine the noise? 18 Richard and Lynn Masonville of 22562 19 Deerfield. They are in support of Mr. Suhr's request and 20 are against the building of the basketball court proposed 21 by the Turners for several reasons. And among them they 22 list property values. And also an attached letter from a 23 realtor. The size of the court is too large. Lack of 24 compliance with processes and rules of the City of Novi. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
65 1 And once, again, an analogy that I believe 2 the person in question made to free speech and yelling 3 fire in a crowded theater that made comments at the 4 podium today. 5 Charles Hale, Jr. Approval. I think my 6 property value will decrease if this installed. 7 And lastly Chris Rau, R-A-U, 22601 8 Deerfield. Approval. We are in full support of this 9 requested variance. 10 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 12 And also I want to note that the letters 13 that were brought forth in the Petition by the audience 14 will also be part of the record. 15 At this time I close I will close the 16 public hearing and open it up or actually turn it over to 17 the City for additional comments. 18 MR. SCHULTZ: I think we're done. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Then I will open it 20 up to the Board for discussion. 21 Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: In the regards to the ZBA 23 looking at the case that is appealing the decision for 24 authorizing the basketball apparatus. I think of it as LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
66 1 similar to a swimming pool. In that our Building 2 Authority, Don Saven, viewed the Ordinances as best he 3 could, that he was looking for the best option for the 4 Applicant. That if he put the basketball court in his 5 backyard that there was the water drainage and the side 6 yard would best. 7 And that according to the paperwork that 8 he reminded the Applicant about complaints and nuisance. 9 That the Applicant would be aware of such things, and 10 would I'm sure want to increase the value of his property 11 as well. So I would not be opposed. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 14 First of all, I want to thank all my 15 neighbors for finding time and coming out here and making 16 this into a very interesting meeting. It's not so 17 exciting every time. 18 I do have a lot of empathy for all my 19 neighbors. But our job here as the Zoning Board of 20 Appeals is to see that Ordinances and Building 21 requirements and other things as prescribed by the City 22 are observed. 23 And I haven't found anything so far to 24 suggest that there has been any error of judgment by the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
67 1 Building Officials in granting the Permit which has 2 already granted. And I have no hesitation in supporting 3 and upholding the decision of the Building Department. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 6 Sanghvi. 7 Anyone else? Member Fischer? 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: This is a very 9 interesting case. And I agree as all three of us are 10 neighbors in that subdivision as well, much empathy. 11 Especially regarding the lot size and the proposed size 12 of the court that is proposed to be built. 13 But, I would like the City Attorney again 14 to go over -- so often as you stated the cases that we 15 look at have to do with property values, surrounding 16 neighbors, effect on those neighbors. But in this case 17 those criteria are not at our disposal. We must look 18 purely at the decision made by the Building Official 19 according to the approval that he made and the Ordinance 20 he applied to this. Is that correct? 21 MR. SCHULTZ: That is correct, through the 22 Chair. Again, a little different than the usual 23 discretionary decision. Essentially you are looking at 24 the language of the Ordinance that Mr. Saven applied. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
68 1 And, again, we can only regulate. 2 We pass Ordinances and we are stuck with 3 the language once we have them and we have to apply them 4 consistently. And real question is did Mr. Saven apply 5 the Ordinances here regarding basketball apparatuses, 6 slabs not being treated as an accessory structure 7 consistently with the way they have been applied by City 8 in the past? And obviously he believed he did. But you 9 would need to find that his ruling was inconsistent with 10 the language of the Ordinance in order to grant this 11 Appeal. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So I am correct 13 in my assumption that the size, the effect on the values, 14 et cetera, cannot be taken into consideration by myself 15 and the colleagues in this particular Appeal? 16 MS. SCHULTZ: That is correct. As long as 17 there is no imitation in the Ordinance, and there is 18 none. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And also 20 oftentimes once again in the normal cases that we see, we 21 are allowed to put restrictions, time restrictions. You 22 must put these type of trees up. We have done it at 23 Glenda's before. Once, again, we are not allowed to put 24 restrictions because we are not approving or denying the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
69 1 variance, but merely giving it administrative appeal; is 2 that correct? 3 MR. SCHULTZ: That is correct. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So the question 5 to us is, was the Building Official correct to conclude 6 that this was not an accessory structure? 7 MR. SCHULTZ: And/or that the basketball 8 apparatus is otherwise permitted in that side yard, 9 that's correct. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay. And if 11 this Board were to find, no, the Petitioner could place 12 said basketball court in the backyard as long as it 13 abided by the setback Ordinances? 14 MR. SCHULTZ: That is correct. If you 15 found that this set of circumstances somehow this would 16 be an accessory structure. That doesn't mean it's 17 prohibited, that changes the location on the Permit. 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Now, a lot of 19 the packet of material that I read through talked about 20 contiguous. Can you make any comment regarding that? 21 And I am correct to assume if they were to add some 22 cement to the front that this would then really not be an 23 issue either? 24 MR. SCHULTZ: I guess two responses to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
70 1 that. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Of course, 3 that's an attorney for you. 4 MR. SCHULTZ: It could it be three. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 6 (Unintelligible) 7 MR. SCHULTZ: Section 2911 is where that 8 phrase is contained. And essentially it says that you 9 can have that garage mounted, back board and hoop in the 10 front yard setback again or the side yard pole mounted 11 hoop and apparatus being in the setback again as long as 12 it's located within some parameters. 13 Furtherest away from -- closest to the 14 house within that side yard setback and closest to the 15 front half closer to the street. And contiguous to the 16 driveway. The problem with -- I shouldn't say the 17 problem, the reason why it doesn't apply here, the issue 18 of continuity is because this isn't in the setback. It's 19 not in the front yard setback and it's not in the side 20 yard setback. So, the whole issue of making it 21 contiguous to the driveway doesn't become relevant. 22 If for some reason he wanted to change 23 that location, and I think Mr. Saven's point was, he can 24 just make more of the front yard driveway, pavement, LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
71 1 cement, and we wouldn't be having the argument about 2 whether it's contiguous. 3 The issue became irrelevant because the 4 pole was moved out of the setback away from that side 5 yard of Mr. Suhr out of the setback so the continuity 6 issue went away. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you for 8 the letter that was so timely, and as well as all of your 9 opinions tonight as well as in the letter. 10 Once, again, it's very difficult, but I 11 would have to agree with the previous speaker in the fact 12 that I don't find any issue with the decisions made by 13 the Building Official. 14 Now, if as stated, if we were looking at 15 all the different issues that we normally look at in a 16 use or non-use variance situation, who knows where my 17 outcome would be, but I have to look at the case in front 18 of me and the rules that govern what I may decide. 19 So I will agree with the previous speaker. 20 I do not find an error in the Building Official's 21 decision. 22 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 24 Fischer. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
72 1 Member Canup? 2 MEMBER CANUP: Likewise, I don't see any 3 error in the Building Official's judgment. However, I 4 think from a practical standpoint, I wouldn't want this 5 next door to me. But I don't see where we have that 6 decision to make. 7 I don't like it. And I would encourage 8 the homeowners to maybe take a second look at it and move 9 try to create some harmony with their neighbors and maybe 10 move it into the backyard and settle the problems and not 11 end up with a situation in your neighborhood that's going 12 to be a lot of animosity for years to come. 13 Again, I wouldn't want this thing next to 14 me, but I don't think that is our question here today. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: I have been on this Board 17 32 years. This is the first time this particular case 18 has ever come before this Board, the 2911 basketball 19 court on the side of a driveway. We had over 400 cases 20 come to this Board when this portion of the Ordinances 21 were written. Not one made a change to what we wished 22 or as to what the Ordinance wanted. 23 In going over this case. I see there has 24 been no improprieties or anything else out of the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
73 1 ordinary of the Building Official. So, I will go along 2 with the Building Official. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 4 Bauer. 5 I will place my comments on the record if 6 there is no further discussion. 7 This is a tough one. This is a difference 8 between heart and brain with me. I sit on my 9 subdivision's board of directors, and I hope we never 10 have to see anything like this in front of our board of 11 directors. It's a tough, tough act there and it's a 12 shame it's come to this. 13 Also, I can hear people playing basketball 14 five houses away. I understand that those are people who 15 sometimes need to go to bed early or perhaps working a 16 different shift. Now, there is some noise Ordinances 17 within the City, but typically a basketball bouncing 18 doesn't exceed the dbas or children laughing or whatever 19 doesn't exceed the dbas or the minimums here at the City 20 or the maximums. 21 Like I said, it's tough, because my heart 22 says I wouldn't want it there either. But my brain says 23 I got to follow our Ordinances. There is nothing that I 24 see out of line with what the Building Official has LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
74 1 recommended and put forth. So I would be in support of 2 that direction. 3 At this point I will be happy to entertain 4 a Motion. 5 Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. I will make a 7 Motion, Mr. Chair, that in Case number: 07-018 we deny 8 the request of the Petitioner and uphold the decision of 9 the Building Department of City of Novi. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there any 12 findings that needs to be added to that? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: I think just an indication 14 on what basis presented in the Applicant's materials 15 indicate that the decision was incorrect. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: May that be added to 17 your Motion? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's fine by the 20 Second? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been Motioned 23 by Member Sanghvi and Seconded by Member Bauer. 24 Please call the roll. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
75 1 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 8 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 13 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny Petitioner's 14 Appeal passes 6-0. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. We have 16 reached the 90-minute portion of our meeting, so we are 17 going to have a 10-minute recess. Thank you. 18 (A 10-minute recess was held.) 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We are going to call 20 the meeting back to order. Thank you. 21 22 Moving on to the next Public Hearing. 23 Case number: 07-019 filed by Patrick Stieber of Allied 24 Signs. Allied Signs for 48595 Grand River Avenue, LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
76 1 Sunbelt Rentals. Patrick Stieber is requesting one 41.91 2 square foot sign variance for an additional 2 foot 8 1/8 3 inch by 15 foot 7 7/8 inch wall sign for the Sunbelt 4 Rental Store located at 48595 Grand River Avenue. There 5 is currently a ground sound on this parcel of land. The 6 property is zoned I-2 and located south of Grand River 7 and east of Wixom Road. 8 The City of Novi Code Ordinances Section 9 28-5(3) states: No building or parcel of land shall be 10 allowed more than one sign. 11 The Applicant is requesting an additional 12 41.91 square foot wall sign. 13 I do want to mention while I'm doing this 14 to the audience. I know everybody has these and they can 15 read it, but the TV audience can't. So anybody at home 16 we try to read these for you so you understand what we 17 are reviewing as well. 18 At this point is the Applicant present? 19 Please come forward and be sworn in by our 20 Vice-Chair if you are not an attorney. Please state your 21 name and address. 22 MR. STIEBER: Good evening. Patrick 23 Stieber, 33650 Gift Oaks Drive, Clinton Township, 24 Michigan. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
77 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 2 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-019? 3 MR. STIEBER: I do. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please, state your 6 case. 7 MR. STIEBER: Well, as stated the property 8 in question is at 48595 Grand River Avenue. Some of the 9 Board Members might know this property formerly as 10 Nation's Rent. It was a long-standing business that has 11 been in your city for years and then have been recently 12 bought out by Sunbelt Rentals. So all of their stores 13 within Michigan are having all of their signs changed 14 over. 15 As also stated, there is a ground sign on 16 the site currently. We have already pulled a Permit to 17 install new faces into that sign. That's been done in 18 order to get them identification, because they are 19 operating currently as Sunbelt Rentals. 20 I would also like to point out the size of 21 that sign I believe is only 10 square feet. So what 22 we're asking for here in essence is a various for a 23 second sign. I believe that we are within the actual 24 square footage requirements of the Code, but the building LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
78 1 inspector can verify that information based on the 2 Application that was submitted. 3 But what we are asking for here is a 4 second sign. It is a wall sign that basically faces -- 5 it's not a sign that actually faces the road, due to the 6 setback of this building and the parking and the way that 7 everything facilitates around here, the entrance of the 8 store actually faces the parking. And to them it's very 9 key to have identification, especially since it's a new 10 branding over their entrance. 11 So, that's why we are here tonight. We 12 are asking for this additional sign to give them this 13 identification. They do feel that there is a lack of 14 identification due to the setback of the building, due to 15 the size of the sign that is on the road, it is rather 16 small. We are here tonight to ask for a variance for 17 approval on that. 18 I do have a drawing I can put up here that 19 does show the proposed sign. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Would you, please. 21 Is that all you have? 22 MR. STIEBER: That's it. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you. 24 At this time being a Public Hearing, are LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
79 1 there any members of the audience that care to come 2 forward and speak? 3 Seeing none, I would like to state that 17 4 notices were mailed. We have received zero approvals and 5 zero objections. 6 I will close the Public Hearing and turn 7 it over for comments from the City or Counsel. 8 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no comments, sir. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No comments, thank 10 you. 11 And I will turn it over to the ZBA for 12 discussion. Member Canup? 13 MEMBER CANUP: I did pass there today and 14 did pay attention to the signage. And I can't see where 15 there would be a hardship that would require more signage 16 than what is allowed by Ordinance. I don't know that I 17 dislike what's there, it looks nice, but I don't see 18 where there is a hardship or the need for it due to the 19 fact that it is recognizable immediately when you get 20 there. The sign in the front yard in my opinion is very 21 prominent. The location of the building is very easy to 22 spot. And I think that anybody that is going to Sunbelt 23 Rentals would have absolutely no problem finding it even 24 without a sign. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
80 1 So with that I would have difficulty 2 supporting a Motion to approve this. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very much, 4 Member Canup. 5 Member Bauer? 6 MEMBER BAUER: I agree with Member Canup. 7 The identification on the roadway should be sufficient. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 9 Anyone else? 10 I would like to comment that -- I wanted 11 to ask, I'm sorry, ask the Applicant, is there any 12 signage on the door? I drove by it but I didn't drive 13 down the drive. 14 MR. STIEBER: I believe that they have 15 installed a vinyl decal that displays the store hours and 16 things like that. It does have Sunbelt Rental on it. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And there is no 18 other usage of the building by any other subsidiary? 19 MR. STIEBER: Nope. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, once you drive 21 down the drive after seeing the monument sign that's the 22 only building you go to? 23 MR. STIEBER: Absolutely. I hear what you 24 are saying. I am just a messenger. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
81 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Obviously with that 2 I agree with the previous speakers. At this point I 3 would entertain a Motion. 4 Member Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Mr. Chair, I would make a 6 Motion that in Case number: 07-019, Sunbelt Rentals -- 7 let's start over. 8 In Case number: 07-019 filed by Sunbelt 9 Rentals that we deny the request as stated due to the 10 fact that there is insufficient demonstrated hardship. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: It's been Motioned by 13 Member Canup. Second by Member Bauer. 14 Any further discussion? Member Fischer? 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Might the 16 Motion maker consider saying that the Board used the 17 practical difficulty standards in this case as opposed to 18 hardship? 19 MEMBER CANUP: I don't have a problem with 20 that. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: I don't. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do you have any 24 objections to adding that to the Motion? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
82 1 MEMBER BAUER: No. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Did you get all 3 that? Would you please call the roll, please? 4 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: We are trying to get your 7 attention, Mr. Chairman. But before you do, I just 8 wonder whether we were not giving him an option whether 9 he wants a ground sign or a wall sign? 10 MEMBER CANUP: By ordinance he is allowed 11 one sign. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: One sign, yeah. 13 MEMBER CANUP: So, he can do with that 14 whatever he wants. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: One of them he can have, 16 whether he wants a wall sign or the ground sign? 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Let me ask him. 18 Sir, would you prefer to have the wall 19 sign over the monument sign? 20 MR. STIEBER: I would prefer to have the 21 monument sign. I guess that there may be an option out 22 there for them to enlarge that sign to get the full 23 square footage requirements. Maybe that's an option. 24 But that's something that we would come back to and go LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
83 1 through the normal building process. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, that's 3 something you could pursue. Obviously we can't act on 4 that this evening. 5 MR. STIEBER: Sure. 6 MEMBER CANUP: Actually if they wanted to 7 put in a sign that was within the Ordinance -- 8 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 9 MR. AMOLSCH: If the sign meets the square 10 footage requirements of the City there would be no 11 hearings required for them to put a wall sign if they 12 wanted to eliminate the ground sign. 13 MEMBER CANUP: They can do one or the 14 other, right? 15 MR. AMOLSCH: One or the other, correct. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Let's call the roll. 18 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
84 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 2 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 4 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny passes 6-0. 7 MR. STIEBER: Thanks for your time. 8 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Our next case is 10 Case number: 07-020 filed by a Athir Yousif of Beech 11 Beck Properties for Lot 61 Pioneer Meadows. 12 Mr. Yousif of Beech Beck Properties is 13 requesting five variances for the construction of a new 14 home on Lot 61, Pioneer Meadows Subdivision, Strath Haven 15 Drive. Applicant is requesting a 5-foot front yard 16 setback variance; a 10-foot rear yard setback variance 17 for the house with a 9 foot 7 inch rear yard setback for 18 a bay window; a 7-foot minimum side yard setback variance 19 and a 7-foot aggregate setback variance for both side 20 yards. The property is zoned R-A and located east of Beck 21 Road and south of Eleven Mile Road. 22 Under the City Ordinances Section 2400 23 states: Schedule of Regulations requires a 45-foot front 24 yard setback. A 50-foot rear yard setback. A minimum side LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
85 1 yard setback of 20 feet. And an aggregate side yard 2 setback of 50 feet of the two side yards. 3 Also, City Council Ordinance Section 2908, 4 Projections into Yard states that bay windows, chimneys, 5 cantilevered floors and other vertical projections of up 6 to 10 feet in length and not occupying more than 30 7 percent of the length of the wall on which they are 8 located, may project into the required rear yard not more 9 than three feet. 10 The Applicant is requesting front, rear, 11 side and aggregate yard setbacks to build a new home. 12 Is the Applicant present? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Here is a letter for a 14 sixth. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: There is a sixth 16 Ordinance or Variance request? Excuse me, just a minute, 17 sir. 18 MEMBER BAUER: It was for the Pioneer 19 Meadows. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: For Pioneer Meadows, 21 thank you. 22 Please state your name and address. If 23 you are not an attorney, be sworn in. 24 MR. YOUSIF: Athir Yousif, 17346 Gateway LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
86 1 Circle, Southfield, Michigan 48075. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 3 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-020? 4 MR. YOUSIF: I do. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Please 6 state your case. 7 MR. YOUSIF: Good evening. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Good evening. 9 MR. YOUSIF: Our request for the 10 variances, if it pleases the Board, I want to distribute 11 a revised site plan which is the same as the one that was 12 submitted, but according to the approval of the Pioneer 13 Meadows Association, the request for a several foot yard 14 setback is only for a 5-foot now not for a 7, so it is 15 less. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You reduced it. 17 MR. YOUSIF: We reduced it. If I can 18 submit these. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, you may. 20 And while you're doing that. To the Attorney you do not 21 have to repost the advertising because it is reduction as 22 opposed to -- am I correct with that? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: That's correct. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. And if it LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
87 1 pleases you, put it on the overhead so the audience can 2 see it as well. Or if you need to speak to it I can give 3 you mine to put on the overhead. The zooming needs to be 4 adjusted. Can one of the City employees help with that, 5 please? Thank you. 6 Please go ahead. 7 MR. YOUSIF: Our request is based on 8 hardship in this subdivision. Actually, all the lots or 9 most of them according to my knowledge, if the Ordinance 10 is for the setbacks are applied, they are not buildable. 11 And this lot is 100 foot frontage and 120 foot in depth. 12 If you want to apply the front of here 13 with the setback we will end up with 25-foot depth for 14 our home which does not comply with any of the even the 15 homes that are built there in this subdivision. 16 So, in order to have this lot buildable, 17 we are proposing these variances for the setbacks which 18 are in compliance with the requirements of as bylaws of 19 the association, therefore this subdivision, because as I 20 said, all of these lots in this subdivision are affected 21 by this zoning. The R-A zoning actually does not apply 22 for this lot. So for each lot that is being built in 23 this subdivision there has to be these variances. 24 And accordingly we are purposing this as LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
88 1 we have proposed I think it was some ten months ago for 2 Lot 62 which is adjacent to this which were the same 3 setback variances which we applied for and we were 4 granted this at the time. And we are proposing to put a 5 home there which is roughly 2,500 square feet and square 6 footage which complies with the bylaws of the Association 7 there. 8 The main thing that we are requesting now 9 is these variances so that we have a buildable lot. And 10 as far as the architectural aspect of this home, the 11 footprint will stay the same, the architectural aspect of 12 it, there were some concerns from the Association 13 Committee, Architectural Committee for that. We did some 14 revisions to it from the first time that we submitted it 15 so that it will look different than what is being about 16 built now by us on Lot 62 which is adjacent to it. 17 So, we have no problem in doing any more 18 revisions, in our opinion that will be left for the 19 review before the Building Permit that it complies with. 20 Because to say that this is different than this actually 21 is a matter of, most of times, matter of opinions. And 22 we are ready to accommodate this. But for the time 23 being, in order for us to have buildable lot we need 24 these variances. And to build within the submitted LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
89 1 footprint. Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 3 This being a Public Hearing is there 4 anyone in the audience who cares to speak on this matter? 5 Seeing none, I will state that there were 6 32 notices mailed. We received zero approvals and zero 7 objections. 8 I will close the Public Hearing and ask 9 the City and Counsel if they have any comments? 10 MR. SCHULTZ: No comments. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No comments. I will 12 then turn it over to the Board for discussion. 13 Member Canup? 14 MEMBER CANUP: I live in this community. 15 And we have been through this before with this gentleman 16 and with other homes in the area. There is not much to 17 be discussed. It has to be done in order to accommodate 18 a home on that lot. And I think there is maybe four more 19 lots in that group right there? 20 MR. YOUSIF: I think on Strath Haven I 21 think it's only another lot besides this and that's it. 22 MEMBER CANUP: And you have the ones on 23 Beck Road -- 24 MR. YOUSIF: (Unintelligible). LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
90 1 MEMBER CANUP: I think there is probably 2 four or five other lots there. So, for the practical 3 purposes the subdivision is pretty much built out other 4 than these maybe half a dozen lots. 5 And, again, the comment from the Pioneer 6 Meadows Association for the home that you proposed first 7 on this one was almost identical to the one next door 8 except for very little amount of architectural 9 difference. And I think we asked you to change that and 10 you accommodated that, so, we as the association. 11 Anyway, I leave it with that and I would 12 vote in a positive manner to approve this. It's a no 13 brainer. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 16 think we have gone through this before. It's the same 17 situation because of the lot configuration. 18 And if the rest of the Board Members have 19 no objection, I would like to make a Motion that in Case 20 Number: 07-020 we grant request of the Applicant for the 21 different variances because of the lot configuration. 22 Thank you. 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion on LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
91 1 the floor Motion by Member Sanghvi and seconded by Member 2 Krieger. 3 Any further discussion? Seeing none, 4 please call the roll. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 10 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 17 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 19 MR. YOUSIF: Thank you. 20 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Next case, Case 22 number: 07-021 filed by William McKeever of Certified 23 Management Company at 25795 Meadowbrook Road. Mr. 24 McKeever is requesting an extension of variance granted LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
92 1 in ZBA 06-011 for one 24-square foot oversized real 2 estate sign located at 25795 Meadowbrook Road. The 3 property is zoned I-1 north of Grand River and east of 4 Meadowbrook Road. 5 Under the Ordinances Section 28-6(4) which 6 states: Sale, rental or lease sign which identified the 7 sale, rental, or lease of the non-residential property be 8 not less than one-half the distance between the principal 9 building and adjacent street and not higher than 10 feet. 10 It says One sign. 11 The Applicant is requesting an extension 12 to an oversized real state sign at that location. 13 You must be the Applicant? 14 MR. McKEEVER: I'm the Applicant. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 16 name and address and if you are not an attorney, be sworn 17 in. 18 MR. McKEEVER: William McKeever, 5570 19 Carol Key Road, Commerce Township. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 21 tell the whole truth regarding Case number: 07-021? 22 MR. McKEEVER: Yes, I do. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 24 case, sir. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
93 1 MR. McKEEVER: Basically requesting the 2 extension of a variance due to the fact that the 3 conditions that were existing at the time that it was 4 originally granted are still in existence today. The 5 biggest one being the topographical lay of the land. The 6 fact that the sign is set up with the road being so much 7 higher than the yard that the sign sits in. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: For the audience's 9 sake, do you have a picture you can put on the overhead? 10 You got to bear in mind there is a viewing 11 audience at home as well as the people here in the 12 audience. Thank you. 13 MR. McKEEVER: And this is looking to the 14 north along Meadowbrook Road. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This being a Public 16 Hearing, are there any members of the audience who wish 17 to make comments? 18 Seeing none, I will state that 31 notices 19 were mailed. I received one approval from a Hall 20 Engineering at 25400 Meadowbrook Road, and zero 21 objections. 22 At this point we will close the Public 23 Hearing. 24 Turn to the City for comments? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
94 1 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no problems with the 2 sign, it was well maintained. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I will turn it over 4 to the Board. 5 Member Canup? 6 (Interposing) (Unintelligible) 7 MEMBER BAUER: Go ahead fight over it. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go on. 9 MEMBER CANUP: I think in light of the 10 fact that this is a renewal and it hasn't caused any 11 problems and the economic situation hasn't improved and I 12 imagine the rents are still a problem. So, in order to 13 try to help the business people in this community in the 14 times that we have I would be in favor of granting a 15 variance in this case. Unless Mr. Fischer would like to 16 do that. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I just got a 18 quick question. On the other side of the driveway there 19 was a JFK something leasing sign. That's not associated 20 with this sign, is it? 21 MR. McKEEVER: No, it's my neighbor's 22 sign. It happens to be on our property. But it's their 23 pre-existing sign. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That's all I LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
95 1 had. I just wanted to make sure we didn't have two signs 2 advertising the same thing. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other comments? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: No comments. If there is 5 no further discussion let's make a Motion. 6 MEMBER CANUP: I would make a Motion that 7 in Case number: 07-021 filed by William McKeever that we 8 grant the variance as requested due to the previous 9 statements made. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do you want to 12 indicate a time length? 13 MEMBER CANUP: Two years. Would that work 14 for your? 15 MR. McKEEVER: That will work for me. 16 MEMBER CANUP: Two years or when rented. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I was wondering 18 about how long we were going to do it for. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion on 20 the floor made by Member Canup and seconded by Member 21 Bauer. 22 Any further discussion? 23 See none, please call the roll. 24 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
96 1 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 2 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 4 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 8 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 12 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 14 15 Our next case is Case number: 07-022 16 filed by the same Applicant. 17 MR. McKEEVER: It's me. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do we need to swear 19 him in again? 20 MR. BAUER: No. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Go ahead and state 22 your case. 23 MR. McKEEVER: This is for sign that's 24 located across the street from the previous sign that you LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
97 1 just saw. And I am asking for an extension of that 2 variance also for the same reason as stated earlier, the 3 conditions are still in existence. 4 Although this picture is not great, there 5 seems to be some sort of overlay from option one. The 6 sign that we are discussing is labeled option two. And 7 this is looking north of Meadowbrook Road, also just 8 north of Bridge Street. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is that it? 10 MR. McKEEVER: Yes. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Being a 12 Public Hearing are there any members of the audience that 13 would like to speak? 14 Seeing none. There were 16 notices 15 mailed. Zero approvals , zero objections. 16 I will close the Public Hearing and turn 17 it over. Is there comments from the City or Attorney? 18 MR. AMOLSCH: Same comment as before, sign 19 is well maintained. I have no problems with it. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 21 Members of the ZBA? Member Fischer? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Given that it's 23 in the same area, I would agree with the previous 24 comments we made. And this one actually is a bit more LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
98 1 difficult because of the bridge that's right there. So, 2 given economic status and the road, I would be willing to 3 support this. 4 If there is no other discussion I would 5 move that in Case number: 07-022 we move to approve the 6 Petitioner's request given the elements of practical 7 difficulty in regards to the sign on this property, the 8 traffic and common status. And I would move that we 9 approve it for two years or when rented. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think that's 12 an old picture. Yeah, option one is crossed out, you 13 can't really -- 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Because option two 15 is already erected? 16 MR. McKEEVER: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So we are going to 18 continue with the same? 19 MR. McKEEVER: Yes. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: As a renewal, 21 if you will. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Mr. Sanghvi second. 24 Any further discussion? It has been moved LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
99 1 by Member Fischer and seconded by Member Sanghvi. 2 Please call the roll. 3 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 10 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 16 MR. McKEEVER: Thank you so much. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This has been a 18 successful evening for you. 19 MR. McKEEVER: Yes. Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: A long agenda isn't 21 it? 22 23 Case number: Okay. Case number: 07-023 24 filed by Jane Dietrich of Singh Development, LLC, for LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
100 1 25300 Constitution, Main Street, Novi. They are 2 requesting an extension of a variance granted in ZBA 3 06-016 for one year. And ZBA 05-039 for six months for a 4 temporary construction sign for Main Street Village. The 5 property is zoned TC-1 and is located at 25300 6 Constitution south of Grand River and east of Market 7 Street. 8 The Ordinance states under Section 28-6: 9 Construction identification sign which identifies the 10 name of the project developers, contractors, engineers, 11 architects, lenders or sales broker on a site is valid 12 until issuance of first certificate of occupancy. 13 The Applicant is requesting an extension 14 to allow the existing sign to remain on the property. 15 Mr. Kahm. 16 MR. KAHM: Good evening, Mike Kahm, Singh 17 Development Company, 7125 Orchard Lake Road, West 18 Bloomfield, Michigan. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 20 tell the truth in Case number: 07-023? 21 MR. KAHM: I do. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 24 case. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
101 1 MR. KAHM: I have a photograph, I believe 2 you have it in your packet. This is the photograph of 3 the sign that we currently have at the Main Street 4 Village. 5 First of all, I guess I would like to 6 thank this Board for their incredible indulgence relative 7 to their consideration of residential projects in Novi 8 and ours in particular. I know that we have been here, I 9 have been here a couple times before, anyway. I don't 10 think it's any secret to anyone about the condition of 11 the real estate market in this state and most 12 particularly the residential market. Unfortunately we 13 are suffering currently fairly badly. 14 Signage is one of the life blood we have 15 for reaching our tenants as limited as they may be, and 16 so, this particular sign is located near the entry of our 17 Second Phase which is near the intersection of Main and 18 Market, adjacent to the Main Street retail development. 19 So, I am here to ask your indulgence once 20 again to help us continue to market our development so 21 that we can reach sustained occupancy. Sad but true. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Is that 23 all? 24 MR. KAHM: Yes, sir. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
102 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is a Public 2 Hearing. Is there any members of the audience that care 3 to speak? 4 None. Twenty-four notices were mailed. 5 One approval, zero objections. Could you tell us about 6 the approval, please. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: One approval 8 with no comments from Bestco, Joseph Evangelista (ph) of 9 46850 Grand River Avenue in Novi. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At this 11 time I will close the Public Hearing. 12 Any comments from the City? 13 MR. AMOLSCH: Again, as the Board can see, 14 the sign is well maintained. We have got no problems 15 with it. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I will turn it over 17 to the Board. 18 Member Sanghvi? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just have a question. 20 Who gave you this title, developer of the year? That's a 21 new addition -- 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was going to ask 23 that too. 24 MR. KAHM: Actually we got that a couple LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
103 1 years ago. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: First time it showed up 3 here. 4 Anyway, as far as the request is concerned 5 I have no objection to it. Same thing applies to all the 6 real estate signage we are going to see tonight and maybe 7 for a few months to come. Business is slow, almost 8 non-existent and I have no difficulty granting an 9 extension for two more years to this Applicant. Thank 10 you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Fischer? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: What percent 13 occupancy are you at and what would be sustained 14 occupancy? 15 MR. KAHM: Typically sustained is anything 16 over 90. Right now we are at about 75. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: What's the 18 difference between a townhouse and an apartment? 19 MR. KAHM: Townhomes are typically no one 20 above or below you. Apartments have someone above and 21 below you. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So these are 23 all rental units? 24 MR. KAHM: Yes, they are. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
104 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And the last 2 comment to Mr. Sanghvi. The Petitioner asked for six 3 months at this time. So, I don't think we can go above 4 and beyond six months that we noticed for. That's the 5 only thing. 6 I would be willing to two years too, but 7 you asked for six and that's what we noticed for. 8 MEMBER BAUER: You should have asked for 9 more. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: I don't recall six 11 months. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's on the cover 13 letter. 14 (Interposing) (Unintelligible). 15 MR. SCHULTZ: Through the Chair. Looking 16 for the limitation on the request for six months, I see 17 the reference to one year and to six months for previous. 18 Perhaps the Applicant can address the 19 intention of the Application. 20 MR. KAHM: Actually our application was 21 for one year. Tom is correct, there was a previous 22 extension for six months. 23 MR. SCHULTZ: Member Fischer is correct 24 that one year would be the outside limit of the approval LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
105 1 if that was what the request was for. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: I stand corrected. 3 MR. SCHULTZ: We are going to have to be 4 binding by the application. You can't give him more than 5 he requested. 6 MEMBER CANUP: Because it's advertised by 7 the Application it said one year. In other words, the 8 notices that are sent -- 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Notices that 10 were mailed out don't specifically state, so we would 11 have to go by the Application I think is what Mr. Schultz 12 is saying. 13 MR. SCHULTZ: The Notice just says 14 one year. And six months is the previous ones. The 15 Application does ask for one year. 16 MEMBER CANUP: It doesn't matter. Make a 17 Motion. 18 (Interposing) (Unintelligible) 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would move 20 that in Case -- still having the floor, I would move that 21 in Case number: 07-023 we grant the Petitioner's request 22 for the sign for one year given the practical difficulty 23 shown and the apparent status of our economy. 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
106 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any further 2 discussion? 3 We have a Motion by Member Fischer and 4 second by Member Krieger. 5 Please call the roll. 6 MS. WORKING: Member Fischer? 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 8 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 12 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 18 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We just love to see 20 you every year. 21 MR. KAHM: I like being here. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Maybe not for this 23 reason. Thank you. 24 MR. KAHM: Thank you. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
107 1 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Case number -- 3 You're still here? 4 MR. KAHM: I'm like a bad itch. You can't 5 get rid or me. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I guess I need to 7 read this for the audience. Singh Management is 8 requesting an extension of a variance originally granted 9 in 1989. One year extensions for two real estate 10 marketing signs Walton Wood at Twelve Oaks. The property 11 is zoned RM-1 and is located at 23475 Huron Circle south 12 of Twelve Mile and west of Meadowbrook Road. 13 The Ordinance states the same as it did 14 for the last time request and the Applicant is requesting 15 extensions for two real estate marketing signs for Walton 16 Wood. 17 You don't need to be sworn in again. 18 Please, state your case. 19 MR. KAHM: The situation with this project 20 is very much the same as what I just stated for Main 21 Street Village but somewhat more complexed because it was 22 built in two phases. We have two signs that we are 23 requesting extensions for. 24 This sign is the sign that is on the ring LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
108 1 road at the mall, Twelve Oaks Mall at primarily our main 2 entry, if you are familiar with our Walton Wood 3 Development at Twelve Oaks Mall. And then this sign is 4 on the finger road that goes out to 12 Mile and 5 essentially is in front of the assisted living phase that 6 was more recently constructed. 7 We have -- my tale of woe is very much 8 similar to what I just went through for Main Street. 9 With the economic situation it's more unique and maybe 10 even more acute in senior housing. When we built our 11 assisted living facility we did get some folks that came 12 from our independent assisted because they had aged in 13 place and needed more care. Unfortunately part of our 14 business is that those people do become ill or need to go 15 to the hospitals or they pass away. And our difficulty 16 now in our independent division is that people that 17 typically come independent living are coming from 18 existing homes where they have some event in their life 19 where they need to have higher level of care. They can't 20 sell their homes. 21 We are having a more acute problem even 22 than the one that I spoke of last year because our 23 problem has been compounded by the real estate market and 24 that really our source of tenants comes from existing LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
109 1 homes particularly as they first come into our facility. 2 So, our signage really is our very best 3 marketing tools. Particularly with the traffic we have at 4 Twelve Oaks Mall. So, I guess we are begging your 5 indulgence again for one more year to allow us to keep 6 these signs and hopefully get some economic turnaround 7 and get our buildings to sustained occupancy. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Before 9 we move on, I caught myself in error. This does not fall 10 under the same section as the last case. 11 This is under Section 28-6(4) states: 12 Sales, rental or lease sign which identifies the sale, 13 rental or lease as a non-residential property or multiple 14 family apartment complex be not less than one-half the 15 distance between the principal building and adjacent 16 street and not higher than 10 feet. One sign permitted 17 until and 30 days after sale or lease of property. 18 Being a Public Hearing is there any members of 19 the audience that care to speak? 20 Seeing none, we have 14 notices mailed. 21 Zero approvals, zero objections. 22 So, I will close the Public Hearing and 23 ask the City and Counsel if there are any comments? 24 MR. AMOLSCH: Same comment before, well LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
110 1 maintained. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. And I will 3 turn it over to the Board for discussion. 4 Member Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: To me, again, this is a 6 pretty simple one that we grant a variance for an 7 extension of one year. Is that what we are looking for? 8 MR. KAHM: Yes. 9 MEMBER CANUP: If there is no objections I 10 will make a Motion that we grant a variance for case 11 number: 07-024 for a period of one year. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do we need some 14 findings for reasons because of economic condition, et 15 cetera? 16 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. It's been 18 Motioned by Member Canup and seconded by Member Sanghvi. 19 Any further discussion? 20 Please call the roll. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 22 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 23 MS. WORKING: Mr. Sanghvi? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
111 1 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 2 VICE-CHAIR FISCHER: Aye. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 10 MR. KAHM: Thank you very much. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Now you can go home. 12 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Case number: 07-025 14 filed by Sean Hurwitz and D & S Contractors, Incorporated 15 for Brockdale Estates, 280 New Court. 16 They are requesting a variance to allow a 17 dead end street without the cul-de-sac requirement on a 18 minor drive in excess of 150 feet in length in the 19 Brockdale Estates Condominium Development. The property 20 is zoned R-4 and is located on the west side of Novi Road 21 and north of Thirteen Mile Road. 22 Under City Ordinances Section 2514 1.B(3) 23 states: All minor drives in excess of 150 feet, with 24 only one point of access, shall provide a cul-de-sac LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
112 1 meeting city Design and Construction Standards or a 2 T-turnaround, meeting the standard shown above. 3 The Applicant is requesting a variance to 4 the cul-de-sac requirement on a minor road for the 5 Brockdale Estates Condominium Development. 6 The Applicant has come forward. Please 7 state your name and address. 8 MR. HURWITZ: Good evening. Sean Hurwitz, 9 35100 West Eleven Mile Road, Berkley, Michigan, 48072. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 11 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-025? 12 MR. HURWITZ: I do. Okay, we are 13 requesting a variance to eliminate the cul-de-sac in 14 excess of 150 feet. 15 The proposed drive is 170 feet in length 16 on the plan. The main reason for not extending into a 17 cul-de-sac is to protect the woodlands and wetlands and 18 to increase the conservation easement. It's a very small 19 site, it's 3.07 acres which is entirely woodlandS. And 20 we spent the last 16 months working with Mark Spencer on 21 this plan and we have reduced the amount of units to fit 22 on the site. And we have agreed to put a conservation 23 easement on the rest of the property and protect the 24 natural features. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
113 1 By adding the cul-de-sac at the end of the 2 road will substantially encroach into the wetland buffer 3 and into the natural features. 4 And we have agreed with the fire marshal 5 that we would put a fire suppression system in each of 6 the six units. And he has supported that proposal. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Being a 9 Public Hearing is there any member of the audience who 10 would care to speak? 11 Seeing none, could we please review the 12 mailings and the notices? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Sure, Mr. 14 Chair. In this case our City was so kind to send 338 15 notices out and there were zero approvals and nine 16 objections and 17 return mailed. 17 William E. Ziniger (ph) of 30664 Vining 18 Court in Novi: Objection, strongly believe that the City 19 of Novi Code Ordinance should be upheld. 20 I have lived on a cul-de-sac for 15 years 21 in Novi and there is no question that it is more 22 convenient for all, safer and more appealing than a 23 straight dead end street. 24 Objection number two from James Ramajan LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
114 1 (ph) of 41677 Mangolia Court in Novi: I object because 2 no matter how many new houses are built in Novi, taxes 3 never go down. And this being the case we do not need 4 the extra traffic on already jammed roads. 5 Objection from Rosemary King: There are 6 too many condos along this stretch of the area. It would 7 benefit residents and property value much more if a nice 8 park with jogging, walking trails as well as some picnic 9 areas were placed instead. All we have currently is Lake 10 Shore Park. Take a look at the park near Drake between 11 Maple and 14. 12 Mary K. McEachin, M-c-E-A-C-H-I-N, of 13 30877 Jasper Ridge objects: A cul-de-sac looks much 14 better. I have a concern about people always turning 15 around. A new (unintelligible) of their plan. And a 16 cul-de-sac is much more functional. 17 Gary Hack of 41677 Jennifer in Novi, 18 Michigan objects: This area already has way too many 19 condominiums. It does not need another development if 20 contractor would prefer special considerations. And 21 please do not allow. 22 Objection from Kelly Broud (ph) of 41790 23 Independence in Novi: I feel a cul-de-sac provides the 24 neighborhood appeal as well as safety for homes on the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
115 1 end of the street. I live near Maple in Novi and we have 2 several cul-de-sacs which are dead end roads and it 3 aesthetically much more pleasing. 4 Concerning a post card, I think the 5 surrounding area should remain consistent. The Ordinance 6 was there for a reason. 7 Barbara Miller objects, 41794 Independence 8 Drive: These are my objections to the initial proposal. 9 We do not need additional condos and now they would 10 prefer to have six more, a variance to squeeze in six 11 more units. This will depress property values for those 12 living in the area. 13 Objection from Brian Tursa (ph) from 41891 14 Canterbury, Novi: An Ordinance was in place at the time 15 they constructed and designed the plans. The Ordinance 16 was designed to insure the health, safety and welfare of 17 citizens as well as our communities which would be 18 aesthetically similar in design and appearance. 19 The proposed variance is to create a 20 clumping of condos that's not similar to surrounding area 21 and create a potential problem for emergency vehicles 22 which would need access to community. 23 Lastly, this variance would be directly 24 adjacent to a school building. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
116 1 Phyllis Abbott of 31187 Livingston Drive 2 objects stating that: Any dead end street needs a 3 cul-de-sac so that the people that live on that street 4 won't be having strangers going in and out of their 5 driveways to turn around. Zoning Board should follow the 6 Code. 7 And that concludes the correspondence. 8 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Close 10 the Public Hearing. 11 Look to the City or Counsel for comments. 12 Yes, sir, Mr. Spencer? 13 MR. SPENCER: If I may, Mr. Chairman, may 14 I go up to the podium? 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Absolutely. 16 MR. SPENCER: Just to give the audience at 17 home an idea of where this is located at, first of all. 18 This is on Novi Road between 13 and 14 Mile Road just 19 south of Victory Woods Elementary School. This is the 20 site right in here. 21 The Applicant did work with the Planning 22 Department considerably on this site. And here is the 23 proposed site plan for this here. You can blow it up a 24 little bit. You can see it a little more. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
117 1 Because this site has a tremendous amount 2 of natural resources on it in the way of woodlands and 3 wetlands, we worked with this Applicant. I am using our 4 open space preservation option which requires a minimum 5 of 50 percent of the site to be saved. In this case this 6 is going to be permanently saved and a proposed 7 conservation easement. 8 And this green outline is the proposed 9 conservation easement that goes on both sides of the 10 entrance. 11 As you can see we have six units laid out 12 on this stub street. And this is the particular stub 13 street that exceeds the length. This stub street could 14 have been designed a little bit shorter with curbing 15 driveways, but it would have not have functioned quite as 16 well. It does function better by having it extend to 17 this point, people can back out of the driveway and then 18 go in this direction. 19 We did discuss the concerns that some of 20 the residents had about people coming in and not knowing 21 where they were and needing to turn around. This can be 22 accomplished right at this point right here on this 23 intersection. 24 The site will be screened from view LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
118 1 considerably from Novi Road by existing vegetation that 2 is there. The Planning Department supports it to 3 preserve the natural features on the site. And the Fire 4 Department also supports it because the Applicant has 5 agreed to install an NFPA 13D standard sprinkler system, 6 a fire suppression system. And with that kind of system, 7 the fire marshal feels the access of the 20 to 30 feet in 8 length of that driveway is going to be no where near as 9 valuable as having that fire suppression system. 10 The biggest concern for having these 11 turnarounds is for emergency vehicle access. 12 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 13 MR. SPENCER: We will leave this on the 14 overhead for discussion. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. 16 Spencer. 17 Any other comments? City or Counsel? 18 Okay. We will turn it over to the Board 19 for discussion. 20 Member Canup? 21 MEMBER CANUP: My question being, it 22 appears that it would be difficult to put a cul-de-sac 23 near the end because of this unit on the left-hand side 24 at the end of the road; is that correct? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
119 1 MR. HURWITZ: We could have extended it 2 further south or we could have done a T-turnaround which 3 would also would have been approved and fit the 4 Ordinance. It would have more impeded onto the southern 5 part of the wetland buffer there. But we could have fit 6 the T-turnaround in. 7 MEMBER CANUP: Why couldn't you take and 8 reverse the frontage of each one of those homes and that 9 would increase the area at the end of that road so you 10 could put a cul-de-sac in? First of all, I have a real 11 problem with not having a cul-de-sac here. 12 MR. HURWITZ: For 16 months we tried every 13 angle, every position. We started with ten units and 14 started dwindling them down and ended up with six for 15 that reason. We tried facing them north. We tried 16 facing two units north. There is a lot of criteria to 17 meet with the clustering option with the setbacks between 18 the units. 19 MEMBER CANUP: I didn't ask to change 20 that. I asked why couldn't take it -- like the one on 21 the bottom, move it to the back or the one next to it, 22 move it to the front. Why couldn't that be done? And 23 then you would have room for your cul-de-sac there. 24 MR. HURWITZ: Well, the second unit on LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
120 1 that side and the third unit have to be split back like 2 that with the I think it's 20 feet or so off the back of 3 the second unit needs to be split like that, staggered. 4 So we couldn't move the third unit up to match the second 5 unit. 6 MEMBER CANUP: I guess I am having a hard 7 time understanding why you couldn't change that. 8 MR. HURWITZ: Mark, can you help answer 9 that with the staggered? 10 MR. SPENCER: Sure. The Zoning Ordinance 11 has some particular requirements for common walls 12 requirements and building space and requirements using 13 this development option. There was many ways to approach 14 using this option and many different possible scenarios 15 for variances. We did not find any viable option that 16 would not require any variances to use this type of an 17 option. 18 After reviewing the possibilities, this 19 was the alternative we felt would probably work the best 20 for the 30 feet difference. This is, you know, a private 21 road, it's not a public road. It is in reality a 22 driveway for six units. 23 The units, there were some other design 24 considerations that could have been done on this site. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
121 1 And let me just explain what could have been done on this 2 site. And oftentimes it is in the city. This could have 3 been used for single family homes. The footprint would 4 probably have been considerably larger. The Applicant 5 could have elected to take mitigation and with our 6 Ordinance probably filled in or at least encroached in 7 the buffer area considerably and used conventional type 8 development techniques. 9 The Planning Commission reviewed this and 10 approved the preliminary site plan subject to this 11 variance based on the fact that this option would 12 preserve more natural features than using conventional 13 development on the site. 14 MEMBER CANUP: Thank you. I still have a 15 problem with not having a cul-de-sac there. In fact, 16 since this case came to us I started paying attention to 17 places I went that had cul-de-sacs. And for eight years 18 I lived on a dead end street. And my driveway was a 19 turnaround point. It was the last house and it was kind 20 of annoying, actually, but, again, if there is nothing 21 else that can be done with it. 22 I would be more in favor of granting some 23 other variances on the property rather than eliminating 24 this that cul-de-sac because this is not something that LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
122 1 is going to change in six months or a year or five years. 2 This is going to be there forever. 3 MR. HURWITZ: We have spoke to the Fire 4 Marshal about that. One thing that he stated was it's 5 six units and outside even if the traffic from the six 6 units and perhaps a guest or so, which wouldn't happen 7 everyday, he felt like the traffic, especially going down 8 to the third and fourth unit on the left-hand side, that 9 would just be the homeowners. If somebody turned into 10 the site incorrectly, they could turn around. 11 MEMBER CANUP: That's the end of my 12 comments. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 14 Canup. 15 Other comments? Discussion? 16 Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I don't see any major 18 problem with the proposal at the moment. I know there is 19 no cul-de-sac. But I know that we are also trying to 20 save some woodlands and other things and if I had a 21 choice between saving woodlands and having a cul-de-sac, 22 I would rather save the woodlands. Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 24 Anyone else? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
123 1 If not, I have a question or two I would 2 like to ask. 3 MR. HURWITZ: Sure. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: First of all, I'm 5 having difficulty reading the blueprint as to where the 6 driveways are for condominiums on the western side. Can 7 you help me out? Oh, they're combined. That helps. 8 I was trying to figure out how they were 9 separated. But they're not, two and two. 10 MR. HURWITZ: That's correct. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And then this next 12 question was, as we do quite often, people who have 13 children or people who have birthdays, et cetera, they 14 have parties. Where does everybody park when they come 15 visit? 16 MR. HURWITZ: We had at one time put 17 parking spots right on the end of that road right there, 18 on the T-turnaround right there. We made that far enough 19 for a fire truck to turn around in. And we thought that 20 two cars, at least two cars could park there. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's not a very 22 big party. Two cars. So I would envision people parking 23 in neighbor's parking lots. Because the private road 24 doesn't allow parking on both sides because it's not LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
124 1 going to fit. 2 MR. HURWITZ: In this case the road is 3 designed to public road standards and there enough width 4 for parking on both sides of the road. So, there is 5 available space for parking in a couple locations along 6 that road and it was also a space available for parking 7 along the entrance road. 8 We evaluated the parking that was 9 available and felt that it was adequate. There is two 10 car parking in each unit, plus enough room for two cars 11 in minimum the driveways. The one that setback is 12 further, actually you might be able to get four cars in 13 the driveway in that one. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We keep building 15 bigger and bigger cars then we might not be able to. 16 With that, with the Planning Commission 17 recommending this variance and with the fire suppression 18 unit that's been agreed to be included in all the 19 condominiums, I am not opposed to this variance. 20 Any other comments? 21 If not, I would like to entertain a 22 Motion. Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Mr. Chairman, I would 24 like to make a Motion that in Case number: 07-025, we LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
125 1 approve the request of the Applicant to grant as 2 requested because of the lot configuration and the nature 3 of the woodlands and wetlands in the area. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there a second? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been moved by 7 Member Sanghvi, seconded by Member Bauer. 8 Is there any further discussion? 9 Please call the roll. 10 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 12 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 16 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 17 VICE-CHAIR FISCHER: Aye. 18 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: No. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 5-1. 23 MR. HURWITZ: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
126 1 2 Our next Case: 07-026 filed by George 3 Baczewski. Please correct me when you come forward. For 4 1945 West Lake. 5 He is requesting three side yard setback 6 variances; one front yard setback and a variance for 7 total lot coverage to construct a new home in the Bentley 8 Subdivision located at 1945 West Lake Drive. The property 9 is zoned R-4 and located south of Pontiac Trail and east 10 of West Lake Drive. 11 The City Ordinance that this falls under 12 is Article 24 Section 2400 Schedule of Regulations. It 13 requires a front yard setback of 30 foot, a minimum side 14 yard setback of 10 feet with an aggregate setback of both 15 side yards of 25 feet and a maximum lot coverage of 25 16 percent. 17 The Applicant is requesting four setback 18 variances and one lot coverage variance for the 19 construction of a new home. 20 The Applicant has come forward. Please 21 state your name and address. 22 MR. BACZEWSKI: My name is George 23 Baczewski. I live at 1945 West Lake Drive, Novi, 24 Michigan. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
127 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You're not an 2 attorney? 3 MR. BACZEWSKI: No. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please be sworn in. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 6 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-026? 7 MR. BACZEWSKI: I do. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state your 10 case. 11 MR. BACZEWSKI: As everyone I am sure have 12 seen on the survey tonight, the property is 30 and a half 13 feet wide, almost 30 and a half feet. In light of this 14 it would be difficult to meet with the variances by the 15 City. So I would like to ask the City how I was supposed 16 to go in and get my objection approved. 17 So I went to a lot of neighboring homes 18 and pleading my case and as soon as I said I would like 19 to build something similar to what was already there, 20 which the old house was four feet and four feet on the 21 setbacks, they immediately signed and said that there was 22 not a problem. 23 My one neighbor on the north mentioned 24 that it was four feet before. He is not gaining or losing LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
128 1 anything, anyway, so. 2 On the other hand, my other neighbor, 3 which you will hear from, asked me to not go beyond his 4 home. He gave me a distance of 96 feet. Which I made it 5 shorter in compliance with his wishes. 6 On the side he mentions that he would like 7 five feet also. And I was requesting four. So I was 8 hoping that the Board would allow a compromise of four 9 and a half feet. 10 In regards with the 96 feet that my 11 neighbor mentioned, I would like to move the house 12 forward towards the street. Would make the distance 13 25 feet of my property and there is another five feet 14 from my property to the actual road. 15 So I could build a deck on the back of it 16 so I would not interfere in the flood planning. 17 I have asked the Development Liaison if 18 anyone rejected or had any objections to my building of a 19 new home, and they mentioned Kenneth Penn that lives I 20 think four houses down. 21 So I went down there and I spoke with him. 22 He mentioned his concern that the houses in the area that 23 are being built are being too high. 24 As my neighbor's house is one of the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
129 1 houses that are too high, but the City allowed it so I 2 guess that would be all right. I mentioned to him that I 3 had no wishes of building a two story with a walkout 4 which basically is a three-story house. I was raised in 5 a ranch and is sort of particular to ranches. But 6 obviously with the property being as narrow as it is, 7 that is sort of impossible. 8 With that being said, I am sure you will 9 hear from my neighbor and his friend that may object to 10 my building with the setbacks. Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 12 MR. BACZEWSKI: I had the individual that 13 objected previously sign an approval. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You can bring that 15 forward and we will include it in the record. 16 MR. BACZEWSKI: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you done? 18 MR. BACZEWSKI: I believe so. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, go ahead and 20 have a seat. We may be asking you questions. 21 With this being a Public Hearing, is there 22 anyone in the audience who wants to speak in this matter? 23 Please state your name and address and be 24 sworn in by our Vice-Chair. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
130 1 MR. OLIVER: William Oliver, 2009 West 2 Lake Drive. 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Who is 4 swearing? 5 MR. OLIVER: I am. 6 (Interposing)(Intelligible) 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: He won't admit it, he is 8 an attorney. 9 MR. OLIVER: I'm not an attorney for him 10 or anybody. I'm just here on my personal behalf. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 12 tell the truth in regards to Case number: 07-027? 13 MR. OLIVER: I do. We welcome the 14 addition of a new house down there. My only thoughts are 15 in this matter is that the consideration to the 16 neighboring or adjacent property owners be given the 17 upmost consideration. Everybody down there has invested 18 a lot of money, those of us who have built new houses. 19 And so it's very personal to us what goes on next door to 20 us because they are small lots. 21 So, short of that, I think that I don't 22 have any objection to George building a new house, I 23 actually welcome it to the neighborhood. It's a 24 developing area and we need new houses down there. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
131 1 The one that he knocked down was a mess, 2 so we welcome that. But I think it's of the upmost 3 importance that we take into consideration the neighbor's 4 opinions and perspective as to what is going to be built 5 there, the site lines that are impinging upon or could 6 potentially impinge upon and the side yards. Otherwise, 7 I am all for for a new house being there because so far 8 what was there when I moved in there was a mess. It's 9 been knocked down and we would like to move forward. 10 So, I think it's important to consider the 11 neighbors' opinions. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Anyone else in the 13 audience? Please come forward. 14 MR. DANATIS (ph): Hi, my name is Greg 15 Denatis. I am George's direct neighbor. I live at 1947 16 West Lake Drive. Do I need to -- 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 18 tell the truth in Case number: 07-026? 19 MR. DANATIS: I do. I haven't had the 20 opportunity to speak to George regarding his plans for 21 construction since probably '05. This is our fourth time 22 being here on this matter and two of the times that we 23 were here we were going to do 5-yard setbacks on each 24 side of the property which I was very comfortable with. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
132 1 When I had seen this application for the 2 case tonight I was rather surprised that they were less 3 than five feet, and just had a lot of concerns regarding 4 that. Not being able to review the plans or speak to 5 George on this, I didn't know what to make of it. And I 6 am very concerned with anything being less than five feet 7 to the property line. I am concerned with fire hazards. 8 And, of course, anything less than five feet is going to 9 give you some serious maintenance issues. 10 If you have ever lived on a small lot, 11 which I have built a house on a 30-foot lot on that 12 particular street and I know that there are some very 13 very big challenges in maintaining a home when you have a 14 home that's five or four feet from the property line, you 15 have stoppage that are maybe 16 or 18 inches that go away 16 from your house when you try to project a ladder up 17 there, there is just big issues. 18 I would like to see George construct his 19 home. I am supportive of anything that he does, but I 20 would like to be aware of maybe the plans that he has 21 going on and I would like to see a minimum setback of 22 five feet. Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 24 Any other comments? Notices, please. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
133 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes, Mr. Chair, 2 in this case there were 39 notices mailed with seven 3 approvals and three objections. 4 Tracy and Wayne McCloud of 44927 Linburgh 5 Lane. Approve. No comments. 6 Jenny Vaknasco/Klaphake, 7 V-A-K-N-A-S-C-O/K-L-A-P-H-A-K-E, of 100 Pinhill, Novi. 8 Approval, an approval request. 9 An approval from 116 Pinhill, I believe 10 Jackson is the last name. 11 Denversons (ph) of 120 Pinhill approves 12 with no comments. 13 Nancy Merarius (ph) of 44959 Cobblestone 14 approves with no comments. 15 Frederick Vandrock (ph) of 44943 16 Cobblestone approves with no comments. 17 Sam Curry (ph) of 1935 West Lake Drive, 18 approves with no comment. 19 Livio Trioni (ph) of 1939 West Lake Drive 20 thinks that, owns a residence at said address and a 21 direct neighbor of the Applicant and would like to see 22 some minor changes before this request should be 23 approved. I would like to see a setback of anything 24 five feet at least. Anything else proposes a fire risk. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
134 1 I think these minor changes would make the 2 proposed construction an asset to the community. 3 Kenneth Penn of 1929 objects stating the 4 overbuilding has gotten way out of hand, but as 5 demonstrated in the presentation, later approved. And 6 that was approved. 7 And Gerald Ross of 1911 West Lake Drive 8 says: I am opposed to variance of total lot coverage 9 especially on lake lot. Houses should not dominate the 10 lot. I am also opposed to the side lot variance because 11 of the distance between the houses. I feel strongly that 12 this should not be allowed given those two 13 considerations. 14 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At this 16 point we will close the Public Hearing and open it up to 17 the City and Counsel for comments, if there are any. 18 Seeing none, I will turn it over to the 19 Board for discussion. 20 Member Canup? 21 Did you have a comment? 22 MR. FOX: Yeah, I did have a comment. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please speak up, Mr. 24 Fox. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
135 1 MR. FOX: Based on the width of this 2 property being so narrow, we are definitely going to, if 3 the Board approves these variances, we are definitely 4 going to make sure that we maintain drainage on the site 5 and any fire separation requirements that would be 6 necessary for the very small setbacks from the adjacent 7 homes will be looked at by our Department. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Your comments are 9 appreciated. Thank you. 10 Member Canup, do you care to speak? 11 MEMBER CANUP: Yeah, in looking at his 12 drawings, the number one thing I look at is the front 13 yard. And the setback to be able to park there which he 14 has got 25 feet which can accommodate most automobiles 15 today, pickup trucks, and also there is a 5-foot area as 16 mentioned that goes beyond that that he doesn't own, but 17 it's usable. 18 And realistically if you look at the homes 19 22-feet wide and 70-feet long which gives you somewhere 20 in the area of 1,500 square feet on the main floor. He is 21 asking for also a four percent variance on the lot 22 coverage. Which if you look at this lot there is not a 23 heck of a lot you can do with it to build a buildable 24 house on other than what has been proposed. On the one LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
136 1 side you've got an 11-foot lot line and an existing house 2 next door which would give you 15 1/2 feet between 3 houses. On the opposite side if I am reading this 4 correctly you have got 17 and 4, so you got 21 feet 5 there. 6 So, even though it is tight, it is -- I 7 don't know what else they can do with it, it's a 1,500 8 square foot footprint house, it's not very large. So, 9 that's the end of my comments. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 11 Any more comments? Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 As we know, every time they are building a 14 home in that part of the town this a problem. And there 15 is only solution to make is to grant some variances so 16 they can build a buildable home for themselves. And I 17 know they are not out here asking for all kinds of 18 variances in every different area, but there is nothing 19 else you can do. (Unintelligible) You come on the street 20 and it's just so narrow you go there and you see can you 21 drive around there and you sometimes wonder whether if 22 you go in you can't come back. 23 And actually I appreciate his effort to 24 bring something buildable on that little piece of strip LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
137 1 of land you have got there. 2 I have no difficulty in supporting his 3 application for these variances. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 5 Any comments? Member Canup? 6 MEMBER CANUP: Seeing that nobody wants to 7 talk I will make a Motion. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You are doing 9 such a good job. 10 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 11 MEMBER CANUP: You can very well have that 12 opportunity if you would volunteer. 13 I would make a Motion that we grant a 14 variance in Case number: 07-026 as stated by Mr. 15 Baczewski at 1945 West Lake due to the unique 16 configuration of the lot, the size of the lot, the 17 adjacent neighbors, et cetera, that is the reason to 18 grant this variance. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Second. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion by 21 Member Canup. A second by Member Fischer. 22 Is there any further discussion? 23 I would like to ask since the Applicant 24 did state that he was willing to compromise and move to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
138 1 split the difference on one of the side yard variances, 2 could we include that in the Motion? Would you be open 3 to that as a friendly amendment? 4 MEMBER CANUP: I don't have a problem with 5 it. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I have nothing. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So we have a Motion 8 on the floor by Member Canup. And seconded by Member -- 9 oh, it was Member Fischer who seconded the Motion. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I let him speak 11 for me. Superb idea. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have Motion on 13 the floor. Please call the roll. 14 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 15 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 16 MS. WORKING: Member Fischer? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 18 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
139 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 2 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: With the change in 4 the side yard variance. 5 MR. BACZEWSKI: Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have reached the 7 90-minute time, but if the Board is open to it I would 8 like to continue with the final two cases as opposed to 9 taking a break. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Amen, continue. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Go. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The audience has 13 waited a long time. 14 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The next case. Case 16 number: 07-027 filed by Joseph Chuang and Jack Cogley, 17 and please correct my pronunciation, of Sign-A-Rama for 18 25750 Novi Road - Basic Asian Mart. 19 They are requesting a one 24 square foot 20 sign variance for the placement of a 99-inch by 35 inch 21 sign on the rear elevation of the Basic Asian Mart 22 located at 24921 Novi Road. The property is zoned TC-1 23 located east of Novi Road and south of Grand River 24 Avenue. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
140 1 The City Ordinance which this falls under 2 is Section 28-5(3)f, it states: Where two or more 3 separately owned and operated businesses occupy a 4 building on a single parcel of land, each having a 5 separate exterior entrance, each business is entitled to 6 a single identification wall sign. 7 The Applicant tonight is requesting the 8 additional wall sign for the rear elevation of the Basic 9 Asian Mart. 10 The Applicant has come forward. Please 11 state your name and address for the record and be sworn 12 in if you are not an attorney. 13 MR. COGLEY: I am an attorney, although I 14 am not appearing as one today, so I will swear if you 15 like. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 17 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-027? 18 MR. COGLEY: I do. Jack Cogley, 24291 19 Novi Road, Novi, Michigan 48375. 20 Mr. Chair, Members of the Board, I am here 21 tonight representing Mr. Joseph Chuang who is the owner 22 of the property. He has decided since owning it and 23 having a vacancy in the building he has decided to put a 24 Basic Asian Mart business, a grocer type business between LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
141 1 the Red, White & Blue and the Fifth Avenue Ballroom. 2 He has requested and it's been denied a 3 second sign on the rear of the building for identity 4 purposes in which case we are here today to point out 5 that under Code Section 28-5(2)(ii)B II, a second sign is 6 allowed under this building if there is a pedestrian 7 entrance in the rear. 8 In this case it is not a pedestrian 9 entrance, it is a service entrance, but it's also similar 10 to the other two properties which also have non-public 11 entrances and they have been granted the variances. 12 We pointed out that the southbound traffic 13 on Novi Road is not allowed to turn left into the site, 14 it has to turn left at Main Street, would go down and 15 pick up the ingress into the site from the rear of the 16 building or the eastern net which is a good reason to 17 identify the property at that point. 18 In addition to the fact that the ingress 19 from the southbound has to come from the rear of the 20 building, the neighbors do have signs, as I said they 21 have been granted variances dating back to 1998. Both 22 times it was granted for traffic control purposes as well 23 as identity. 24 We believe the same two points affect this LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
142 1 property equally at this point in time. The property is 2 zoned TC-1 which is in addition to the rest of the Main 3 Street development and it's trying to identify itself 4 back up to that area of the City and as such it needs the 5 exposure and identity based on the remainder of the TC-1 6 district. 7 We believe that the standard here is 8 practical difficulty not hardship due to the fact that 9 we're talking about a diminishable variance, i.e., we are 10 requesting a second sign. And it's not a change of use 11 at all. 12 Therefore, we believe that we have met the 13 practical difficulty standard and ask that you would 14 grant this variance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. 16 Cogley. 17 MR. COGLEY: By the way, I do have a 18 picture. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was going to ask 20 if you would put this one up. Thank you. 21 This being a Public Hearing is there any 22 members of the audience that care to come forward and 23 speak? 24 Seeing none, where do we stand on notices? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
143 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, in 2 this case 21 notices were mailed, zero approvals and zero 3 objections with one mail returned. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Closing 5 the Public Hearing. 6 Anybody from the city any comment? 7 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no comment, sir. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Nothing, Mr. Fox? 9 MR. FOX: No. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, I want to make 11 sure. 12 Any members of the Board care to discuss 13 this matter? 14 MEMBER CANUP: I am giving Mr. Fischer the 15 opportunity. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I appreciate 17 the member yielding the floor to the young gentleman from 18 Pioneer Meadows, senior Member of the Board. 19 I do not see an issue with this sign 20 surprisingly enough. Looking at the Applicant's 21 application addendum they point out several key facts 22 that I feel is very pertinent. I think the point that 23 there is no left-hand turn allowed off of Novi Road into 24 this site I think itself demonstrates somewhat of a LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
144 1 practical difficulty. 2 As far as surrounding neighbors, obviously 3 both of them do have two signs. I thought an interesting 4 point too is the fact that we will be reconstructing Novi 5 Road near the railroad track and given the construction 6 that we have seen by the county and the city, oftentimes 7 those do create hardships -- I'm sorry, practical 8 difficulties. So, I believe that this Petitioner has met 9 the elements of practical difficulty established by City 10 Counsel for us to apply. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Member 12 Sanghvi? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And then -- go 14 ahead. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just had a question. 16 Your rear door really doesn't open into the parking lot, 17 directly, does it? 18 MR. COGLEY: Well, it doesn't because in 19 all of our business (unintelligible) show up as a wing 20 wall between the parking lot and the door itself. But I 21 mean, you are not prohibited from entering. But it does 22 not meet the pedestrian provisions of the Code. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: So, it's an emergency 24 exit? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
145 1 MR. COGLEY: Well, it's going to be an 2 emergency and employee exit is what it's going to be. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: And all your deliveries 4 will be coming through that exit? 5 MR. COGLEY: The deliveries would be in 6 there too, yes. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: You can't put a sign on 8 the door itself rather than on the wall? 9 MR. COGLEY: Well, the door is not visible 10 from at least half the parking lot because of the wing 11 wall screening. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 13 MR. COGLEY: You're welcome. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 15 Sanghvi. 16 Member Canup, did you have a comment? 17 MEMBER CANUP: No comment, but it looks 18 like it's something that is clearly well needed. Most of 19 the entrances into that parking lot is through the back 20 of the building. 21 So, if there is no further comments I 22 would make a Motion. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please do so. 24 MEMBER CANUP: Pardon? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
146 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please do so. 2 MEMBER CANUP: I will make a Motion that 3 in Case number: 07-027 we grant the variance as requested 4 by the Petitioner for reasons as stated by Members of 5 this Board. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 8 made by Member Canup and seconded by Member Krieger. 9 Any further discussions? Is statements 10 made by the Board sufficient or would you like us to 11 include practical difficulty, continuing traffic, 12 identity -- 13 MR. SCHULTZ: I had just mentioned that if 14 she incorporates Mr. Fischer's comments that that would 15 work. 16 MS. WORKING: I will be happy to be here 17 tomorrow morning so I can do that for you. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. We would 19 appreciate it. 20 Please call the roll. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 22 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 23 MS. WORKING: Member Fischer? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
147 1 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Member Sanghvi? 5 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 10 MR. COGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 11 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Our final Public 13 Hearing this evening is Case number: 07-029 filed by 14 Jeffrey Jones of Automotive Techniques for 40500 Grand 15 River Avenue. They are requesting a variance to allow 16 parking in the front of the building setback line and a 17 variance to reduce the required number of parking spaces 18 for the business from 54 to 16 on the property located at 19 40500 Grand River Avenue Suite J. The property is zoned 20 I-1 and is located north of Grand River Avenue and west 21 of Haggerty Road. 22 This falls under City Ordinance Section 23 1903 4.a.(3): Principal uses permitted in locations not 24 abutting a residential district and subject to special LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
148 1 conditions states: Automotive service establishments and 2 public garages for vehicle repair for any operations on a 3 lot adjacent to a major thoroughfare, the following 4 special requirements shall apply: (3) No vehicle parking 5 in front of actual building setback line. 6 Also, under Section 2505 14.e.(3): Off 7 street parking requirements states: The minimum number 8 of off-street parking spaces by type of use shall be 9 determined in accordance with the following schedule: 10 Automotive service establishment, public garage, one 11 space for every one hundred square feet of useable floor, 12 plus one space for every employee. 13 Applicant is requesting a variance to 14 allow parking in the front of the building setback line 15 and a variance to reduce the amount of required parking 16 spaces from 54 to 16. 17 The Applicant is here. Would you please 18 come forward and state your name and address and be sworn 19 in by our Vice-Chair. 20 MR. JONES: My name is Jeff Jones of 21 Automotive Techniques. I live at 220 Shamrock Hill in 22 Novi. You want to swear me in? 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 24 tell the truth regarding Case number: 07-029? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
149 1 MR. JONES: I do. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 3 MR. JONES: Thank you. Basically I run a 4 real small automotive shop. I do probably eight, ten 5 cars a week, in a week. Fifty-four parking places for 6 four employees in that kind of car turnaround. I work on 7 high end cars, kind of low key and the variance for the 8 parking is what I need. Sixteen, I don't think I will 9 need that many parking places, but I put it in there. 10 And the other variances for parking in the 11 front of the building, on the side, the parking places 12 are already there. We are just asking permission to park 13 in front of it, I guess. That's all I have. 14 Do you have any questions? 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We may have some for 16 you. 17 MR. JONES: I will be available for you. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you. 19 This being a Public Hearing, is there 20 anyone else in the audience who cares to speak? 21 MR. LANORY (ph): I'm the landlord. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I need you to do it 23 up here. 24 MR. LANORY (ph): Michael Lanory, I live in LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
150 1 Pinckney, Michigan. My dad built the complex. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Sir, do you 3 swear to tell the truth in Case number: 07-029? 4 MR. LANORY: Yes, I do. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 6 MR. LANORY: I am looking forward to 7 taking Jeff Jones on as a tenant. I would like to 8 increase our occupancy there. He works on a limited 9 number of cars, there is more than adequate parking for 10 his needs I believe and that's why we wanted the 11 variance. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other comments 13 from the audience? 14 Seeing none. Notices? 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes, Mr. Chair, 16 in this case there were 32 notices mailed, zero 17 approvals, zero objections and three returns. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. We will 19 close the Public Hearing. 20 Ask the City for comments? 21 MR. SPENCER: Mr. Chairman, I want to 22 address you at the podium. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, please. 24 MR. SPENCER: Okay, I just wanted to be LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
151 1 able to show you first of all where this is located at. 2 We got Grand River Avenue here, it's between Meadowbrook 3 and Haggerty and we have Seeley right along the side of 4 this complex here. This is one building, I know it might 5 look like two. And the Applicant is proposing to locate 6 in this far western end of the building. You can see 7 based on this photo that it's about 100 feet from Grand 8 River. 9 I will show you a site plan for this also. 10 You can see in a little more detail there is a couple 11 more rows of parking in front of this. This is in the 12 I-1 zoning district so this has been around for quite 13 some time. Many of the uses don't have these particular 14 requirements but because this is an automotive service 15 center it's a little unique and it has some special 16 requirements including no parking in the front yard. 17 The planning staff felt that this was 18 because it was an existing condition and it was setback a 19 sizable distance from Grand River that it could be 20 acceptable. The Planning Commission approved this site 21 plan and special use contingent on the two pending 22 variances that are being requested and a couple other 23 minor conditions. 24 The other issue is the parking issue. And LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
152 1 it sounds like a lot of spaces. One space for every 100 2 square feet is a lot of parking spaces. Technically we 3 could probably consider floor space within the building 4 part of those required parking spaces. We did 5 investigate the site itself on several occasions and 6 found a surplus of parking spaces there. 7 The outdoor parking for the automobile 8 service based on the conditions imposed by the Planning 9 Commission and the Ordinance will be lended to vehicles 10 only being on the site for 24 hours. So, there will not 11 be an accumulation of vehicles on this site. 12 Any wrecked or dismantled vehicles have to 13 have license plates to be stored outside. And, again, it 14 would be subject to that 24-hour criteria. This 15 Applicant is not going to be doing heavy duty body work 16 or dismantling on the site anyway, so this should not be 17 an issue to even have such an animal on the site. 18 As the Applicant stated, his business 19 historically has not required a lot of parking spaces. 20 It's a small volume shop. 21 We also looked at the other uses in the 22 site. And there is a mix of uses in the site including a 23 retail business and a dance studio and some offices. If 24 this was a straight industrial development and all the LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
153 1 other uses were calculated out at one space per 700 2 square feet as it would be for warehouse or industrial 3 use there is an excess amount of parking spaces. But 4 because of these other uses it has brought it to the 5 point that this user would require a variance. 6 Also one of the uses is a dance studio 7 that requires 25 of these parking spaces and we felt that 8 this was a use that would have offsetting times of use 9 versus the office and industrial uses on the site. 10 And also there is practical hardship. 11 There is no place to add any additional parking spaces on 12 this site. We looked at all the nooks and crannies. Any 13 way at all would be in any loading and non-loading areas, 14 and those are valuable spaces for the businesses. They 15 will need them to operate. 16 So, if you have any questions I will go. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. 18 Spencer, I appreciate it. 19 No further comments from the City? 20 Okay, we will turn it over to the Board. 21 Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Can I ask a question? 23 What kind of service are you going to be providing in 24 this business? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
154 1 MR. JONES: I'm sorry, what now? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: What kind of services are 3 you going to be providing? 4 MR. JONES: I do service work on older 5 cars and soon to be classics. I do engine work and 6 transmission work. I don't do any body work, I don't get 7 into that. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: This is not a bump shop 9 for accidents? 10 MR. JONES: No, sir. I leave that to 11 professionals. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I went there, 13 I saw a lot of parking in the back. I know that you don't 14 allow any parking in the front here, but there is only 15 one way inside this whole complex. So, you would need to 16 park two or three cars in the front at the west end of 17 the thing, I don't think it's going to make a tremendous 18 difference. 19 And looking at the kind of work they are 20 going to do, even though I counted seven cars in this 21 photograph here, still I have no problem in supporting 22 the request. Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Member 24 Sanghvi. LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
155 1 Member Fischer? 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: What is the 3 size of your current shop in these photos? 4 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 5 MR. JONES: 4,500. It's 500 square feet 6 larger than where I'm not. I'm at 4,500 in Farmington. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 4,500 square 8 feet and now you will have 5,000. Okay, so you will have 9 more. 10 MR. JONES: A little bit. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 12 (Unintelligible). I would echo his comments. It doesn't 13 appear like there would be a partnership. It's already 14 built, I mean what else is there to do? I was a little 15 bit intimidated by the pictures when I was driving around 16 in my Ford Fusion. I don't suppose that you will 17 (Unintelligible). 18 MR. JONES: We will leave that question 19 unanswered. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. 21 Chair. 22 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other comments? 24 Anyone care to make a Motion? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
156 1 Member Canup? 2 MEMBER CANUP: I would make a Motion that 3 in Case number: 07-029 that we grant a variance as 4 requested due to a practical hardship being that the 5 property was not built originally to meet the 6 requirements of our current Ordinances and that we can 7 see no reason that this would have a negative impact on 8 the existing or surrounding community. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Motion made by 11 Member Canup and seconded by Member Bauer. 12 Additional comments? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, I 14 would just like to put out, do we want to consider making 15 this for this particular business only? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 17 MEMBER CANUP: I think that's a good idea. 18 And I think I would reword that to state that this 19 business is only to be used as a mechanical facility and 20 not a body shop or anything like that. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yep. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The amendments have 23 been approved upon by both the Motioner and Seconded. 24 Any further discussion? LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
157 1 Okay, please call the roll. 2 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 3 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 4 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 6 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 8 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 10 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 12 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 15 MR. JONES: Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 17 That concludes the Public Hearing for this evening. 18 19 Moving on to other matters, we have a ZBA 20 training date discussion. Is that good, Mr. Schultz or 21 Ms. Working? 22 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board, Mr. 23 Schultz has provided to you several dates in May as 24 possibilities for the ZBA training. I would like to LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
158 1 point out that May 28th is Memorial Day. 2 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 3 MS. WORKING: If Mr. Schultz would like to 4 entertain us with an Memorial Day picnic maybe we might 5 be willing to consider it. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: (Unintelligible) 7 MR. SCHULTZ: All the dates were picked 8 before the Wings made it to the next round of the 9 playoffs. 10 MS. WORKING: Oh my. 11 MR. SCHULTZ: They're all full, even 12 Memorial Day. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Can you tell us what 14 days of the week these are? 15 MS. WORKING: I can, just give me one 16 second to pull my calendar out. All right, 2007, May 17 15th is a Tuesday. May 16th is a Wednesday. 17th is a 18 Thursday. 22nd is a Tuesday. 24th is a Thursday. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And Monday? 20 MS. WORKING: And Monday is Memorial Day. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Of course, we want 22 to try to select a date that everyone can attend. We have 23 one member absent. 24 MS. WORKING: Did Mr. Gatt give you his LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
159 1 choice? 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: He did not. Has 3 anyone heard from Member Gatt concerning any date? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Mr. Chairman, it's going 5 to be impossible to find everybody agreeable to the same 6 date and time with everybody busy doing all kinds of 7 things. So, it makes good sense to me that Tuesday is a 8 good day. The 16th is not that far from now. 9 MR. SCHULTZ: Actually Mr. Spencer finds 10 out that I think in the interim that the 16th may have 11 been picked for the Planning Commission. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is that a Wednesday? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: That's a Wednesday. So that 14 one might be falling off -- 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: We always have 16 to bow down to what they want. Take it back. 17 MR. SCHULTZ: Is it the 23rd? 18 MS. WORKING: That is the 23rd because the 19 Novi Promonade will be on the 23rd. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Well, I heard a 21 comment that Tuesday seems to be a good day. Next 22 Tuesday is a week away. My preference in looking at that 23 perhaps would be the 22nd. 24 How does everyone feel about that? The LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
160 1 22nd of May is not available for one our members. Is 2 there a better date for you? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: The 15th, 17th and the 4 24th. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All the other days 6 are better for you. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: I'm sorry. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, we wipe out 9 the 22nd. 10 MR. SCHULTZ: We can also come back in 11 June if you like. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: No, let's get 13 it done. 14 MR. SCHULTZ: Okay. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: How about the 17th? 16 How do we look for that? 17 MEMBER BAUER: Fine. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: The 17th, get it over. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Next Thursday. 20 MEMBER BAUER: A week from Thursday. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You're open on that 22 day? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Sure. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do we have a room LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
161 1 available here? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: We can either do it in the 3 back or one of the Parks and Rec area rooms. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, yet to be 5 determined. We will do it on the 17th. And the time, I 6 know Member Gatt has difficulty making it prior to 7:30. 7 So we almost need to stay at least with that time. 8 MR. SCHULTZ: I look forward to 9 (unintelligible). 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is that agreeable? 11 MEMBER BAUER: What? 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The 7:30 time frame? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Can I just go off the 15 record and make a comment? 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Absolutely. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Can we (unintelligible) 18 buffet dinner and all that? 19 MR. SCHULTZ: Absolutely. We did that 20 actually I think the last time. And in all seriousness 21 the reason why that's done is just to make sure that 22 everybody is comfortable. That they can say what they 23 need to say and not worry about people wandering into the 24 room. And everybody gets to make whatever comments they LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
162 1 want. This is not a public meeting. It's not going to 2 be noticed. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I think it's not a 4 good idea to have it in here. And if there is going to 5 be any type of food we could start earlier and have the 6 meeting itself start at 7:30. We will leave that up to 7 you and Ms. Working to work that out. Is that agreeable? 8 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, all right. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Robin is 11 working. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Working, Robin 13 Working. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Motion to 15 adjourn. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Third. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This meeting is now 19 adjourned. 20 (The Hearing was adjourned at 21 11:02 p.m.) 22 23 24 LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
163 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
STATE OF MICHIGAN ) SS ) COUNTY OF WAYNE )
I hereby certify that on the date and at the place hereinbefore set forth, I reported stenographically the proceedings held in the matter hereinbefore set forth, and that the testimony so recorded was subsequently transcribed by me with the use of computer-aided transcription under my direction and supervision, and that the foregoing is a full, true and accurate transcript of my original stenotype notes.
DATE: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mona L. Talton (CSR-3790) Certified Reporter Notary Public: County of Wayne My Commission Expires: February 17, 2009 LUZOD REPORTING SERVICE (313)962-1176
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