| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, April 5, 2005. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, April 5, 2005 3 At 7:31 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We 6 have a very long evening this evening. 7 And I would like to 8 officially call the April, 2005 Zoning 9 Board of Appeals meeting to order. 10 Gail, would you please call 11 roll. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member 15 Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Here. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Mr. Fisher? 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member 22 Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Present. 24 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member
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1 Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Present. 3 GAIL BACKUS: All present. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The Zoning 5 Board of Appeals is a Hearing Board, empowered by 6 the City of Novi -- the Novi City Charter to 7 hear appeals seeking variances from the 8 application of the Novi Zoning Ordinance. 9 It takes a vote of at least 10 four members to approve a variance 11 request; and a vote of the majority of 12 the members present to deny a variance. 13 This evening, we have a full board. 14 Are there any changes in 15 the agenda? 16 Member Fischer? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, Madam 18 Chair, I would like to insert four 19 elections. I have some information I'd 20 like to present to the board. Number 21 one, please. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Anything 23 else? 24 Board Members?
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1 Seeing none. All those in 2 favor of the agenda say aye? 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All opposed, 5 none. 6 In our packet, we have no 7 Minutes. At the table tonight, there 8 are Minutes for March. Although the 9 Board has not had time to approve them, 10 we will table those until next month. 11 At this time, is there 12 anyone in the audience that wishes to 13 address the Board in regards to a 14 matter, other than what's in front of 15 the Board this evening? 16 Seeing none, I'm going to 17 review the rules before we get started 18 here this evening. As I said, we have 19 an extremely heavy caseload. In order 20 to provide everyone with equal time at 21 the podium, I'm going to ask each and 22 every Petitioner to limit their time; 23 report precisely. Keep in mind that 24 the Board Members have reviewed your
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1 cases appropriately. 2 We ask that you review the 3 highlights of your case and try to 4 avoid any type of repetition. 5 Neighbors. If you have one 6 member from the neighborhood that's 7 speaking, then we will allow you five 8 minutes. If all the members from the 9 neighbors are speaking, you are allowed 10 three minutes; and I will hold you to 11 the time limit this evening. 12 The last request is that 13 everyone sign their -- shut their cell 14 phones off to keep down any noise; and 15 I'd also ask that the audience keep the 16 noise and the talking down when we have 17 Petitioners and residents up here 18 speaking. 19 Having clarified that, I 20 think it will be a fairly smooth 21 evening. 22 23 And I'd like to call, Case 24 Number, 05-003, filed by Amy Davenport,
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1 ASI Modulex for Telcom Credit Union at 2 45175 12 Mile Road, between Novi and 3 Beck Road. 4 Board Members, you will 5 recall that this case was tabled back 6 from March, and -- it was March. Time 7 flies when you're having fun know. 8 This case was tabled back 9 from March. 10 And you are? 11 MR. REAGAN: My name is Tom 12 Reagan. I'm the president of Telcom 13 Credit Union. 14 MR. REED: I'm Greg Reed 15 with ASI Modulex. 16 MS. PIPKIN: And, I'm Donna 17 Pipkin with ASI Modulex, as well. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would 19 you all please raise your hand and be sworn in by 20 our secretary. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 22 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 23 truth regarding case, 05-003? 24 MR. REAGAN: I do.
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1 MS. PIPKIN: I do. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 4 proceed. 5 MR. REAGAN: Ladies and 6 gentlemen, my name is Tom Reagan. I'm 7 the president of Telcom Credit Union. 8 First, I'd like to ask if 9 there's been clarification on the 10 write-up of the case. It appears as 11 though there might be a little bit 12 confusion I just want to make sure that 13 it's understood. 14 What we're here to ask for 15 tonight is a variance to a wall sign, 16 that amounts to a variance of 40 square 17 feet. When we were last before the 18 Board, it was suggested that we go 19 back, consider our position, do our 20 homework, and come back; and we have. 21 We have come back tonight 22 asking that we be approved for a 23 variance on a single wall sign. Our 24 objective now is to remove -- forego
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1 the ground signs that we originally put 2 on the site, as it was constructed two 3 years ago, and opt for the wall signs 4 that are permitted. 5 And that's the case. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 7 Just for clarification, 8 point of view, you are asking to remove 9 both ground signs? 10 MR. REAGAN: Yes, ma'am. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, Thank 12 you. 13 Is there anyone in the 14 audience that wishes to make comment in 15 regards to this matter? 16 Seeing none, there were two 17 letters -- I'm sorry there were nine 18 notices mailed; two letters in favor of 19 the new sign -- one from Sam's Club 20 and one from Novi Community Schools. 21 Building Department? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: Just for the 23 Board's information, they're going to 24 erect a wall sign on the 12 Mile side,
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1 also, which is permitted by the 2 Ordinance. What they're asking for is 3 a variance for the sign only on the 4 east wall. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 6 you. 7 Board Members? 8 Member Fischer? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 10 Madam Chair. 11 Just to clarify from last 12 month, you are the only business in 13 that building? 14 MR. REAGAN: Yes, sir. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: And you 16 intend to continue to do business in 17 that way? 18 MR. REAGAN: That's the 19 only way we can. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay, 21 excellent. 22 We asked the Petitioners to 23 go back to the drawing board. I 24 believe they did. I feel that there is
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1 a need for additional identification. 2 Sorry I'm a little sick today. And 3 with the size of the Building in this 4 particular instance, I don't think that 5 46 -- 40 square feet variance is that 6 out of the ordinary. 7 Just for clarification, how 8 big is the building, do you know, 9 square footage? 10 MR. REAGAN: 37,000 11 approximate square foot. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: 37,000 13 square feet. 14 Thank you, Madam Chair. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 16 Anybody else? 17 Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 19 Madam Chair. 20 I just wanted to echo what 21 Mr. Fisher has just mentioned. They've 22 done their homework. They did what we 23 asked them to do. They've come back 24 with it, and I presume this should be a
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1 formality, and I'd like to make a 2 Motion that in Case Number, 05-003, 3 that the Petitioner's request be 4 granted for business identification 5 purposes. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 8 moved and seconded. 9 Is there any further 10 discussion? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Can we add 14 in there that the two ground signs will 15 be removed? 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: We can add 17 that if you want; with the condition 18 that both of the ground signs be 19 removed. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I would like 21 to echo both Board Members comments; since I'm 22 the one that kind of pushed it to the edge. 23 And I would like to commend 24 you as a business in Novi, working with
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1 us and coming to a happy medium. I'm 2 glad to see it. 3 So without any further 4 delay, Gail, please call the roll? 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member 6 Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member 9 Fischer? 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member 14 Brennan? 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member 19 Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 22 six to zero. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variance 24 has been granted. Please see the Building
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1 Department. 2 MR. REAGAN: Thank you. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you, 4 again, and good luck. 5 MR. REAGAN: Thanks. 6 7 8 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Now 10 we're going to move right ahead to Case Number, 11 05-011, filed by Paul Knuth of Ivanhoe Huntley 12 companies for Wellington Ridge condominiums, 13 located on 12 Mile Road, between Meadowbrook and 14 Novi Road. 15 This case was tabled, 16 again, from last month to this month. 17 Good evening? 18 MR. KELESIC: Good evening. 19 I'm Ken Kelesic with Dykema-Gossett on 20 behalf of the Petitioner. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And you are 22 an attorney, correct? 23 A. That is correct. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
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1 You may proceed. 2 MR. KELESIC: Thank you. 3 We gave you a formal 4 proposal last time. And given the 5 length of your agenda, we won't go 6 through that proposal again. 7 But if you have any 8 questions, we'd be happy to answer it 9 at this time. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 Is there anyone else in the 12 audience that wishes to make comment on 13 this case? 14 MS. BUNDOLF: Debbie 15 Bundolf, Novi and 12 Mile Road. I was 16 hoping to hear answers back as to some 17 of the questions that I brought up last 18 month, as far as the actual ownerships, 19 splits, and things of that nature. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 21 you. 22 Anyone else? 23 Seeing none, there were no 24 new notices sent, previous 86 notices,
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1 and only one objection from before. 2 Building Department? 3 MR. SAVEN: No comment. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 5 A. Members? 6 I will take a lead here. 7 If you recall, Board Members, 8 when we discussed this last month, we felt that 9 the Petitioner at that time did not give us 10 clarification that this property could not be 11 used in any other manner; other than what they 12 were seeking. Thus trying to clarify their use 13 permit or their use request -- change for use -- 14 I'll get it out. 15 So thus, if Board Members are in 16 agreement, being that there is not substantial 17 proof to change this, if the Board Members wish 18 to deny this request, I would suggest that we 19 have Mr. Gillam indicate, in writing, to us -- 20 list our reasons. 21 I'm sure he could clarify it 22 better than us; and perhaps -- I hate to table 23 this case one more time. 24 Would we have to do that in
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1 order for you to -- 2 MR. GILLIAM: If that's the 3 option that the Zoning Board wants to take 4 tonight, you'd have to table it for us to 5 prepare a written recommendation with the 6 findings, in support of a after denial 7 (unintelligible.) 8 The one comment I would 9 make, is Tim Schmitt from the Planning 10 Department is here. Tim is the one who 11 did the initial review of the plan 12 rezoning overlay proposal, and the 13 underlying rezoning proposal; if you 14 have any questions or if you want to 15 get any comments from Tim specific to 16 the request for the use variance, 17 itself. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Schmitt, 19 do you have anything to offer in this case? 20 MR. SCHMITT: I'd be happy 21 to offer some comments at this point. 22 I think -- to answer Mrs. 23 Bundolf's questions, I believe at the 24 last meeting, the two main questions
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1 were, has the property been split; and 2 when and who rezoned it originally. 3 To my knowledge, the rear 4 property has not been split yet from 5 the cemetery. Similar to the corner 6 piece, we have not seen anything occur 7 with that at this point. 8 With respect to the 9 rezoning, after going through some of 10 the oldest records in the City, I found 11 in December -- on December 17th, 1979, 12 the City Council passed a Resolution to 13 adopt the OS1 zoning at the request of 14 a dentist, who I believe has his office 15 on the adjacent parcel currently. 16 So the property was 17 rezoned in the late '70's by the owner 18 at that time. So the City did not 19 initiate the rezoning. It was a 20 request, I believe in the mid-'80's to 21 actually rezone this rear piece -- it's 22 not a parcel yet -- rezone it to 23 office, by the current owner, which at 24 the time was -- I believe tabled and
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1 never brought back for reconsideration. 2 I don't have the entire 3 history on that. From our perspective 4 at this point, you know, in looking at 5 a use variance, you have to establish 6 that you can't use the property the way 7 it's currently zoned. In looking at 8 the roughly three acres of OS1, first, 9 we would estimate -- based on the 10 fiscal analysis and the build out that 11 was done as part of the master plan -- 12 that you're going to see approximately 13 7,000 square feet of office per acre, 14 roughly. 15 Now if you took out the 60 16 foot right-of-way there, to actually 17 access the rear property, you would 18 still be seeing just short of 18,000 19 square feet of office space, 20 theoretically. That number has been -- 21 that 7,000 square feet has been pretty 22 accurate. We're pretty confident in 23 saying you could design a site to get 24 around 18,000 square feet.
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1 No, the reason I took out 2 the 60 foot right-of-way, because -- 3 is, if you were to subdivide this rear 4 portion under the current zoning, you 5 get -- you'd be permitted five lots. 6 And you'd certainly -- should be able 7 to get five lots on that. It's 8 relatively square. It's pretty deep. 9 It's not narrow. There's not anything 10 unusual about the topography; other 11 than the fact that it's a little bit 12 higher than 12 Mile. But, certainly 13 that can be changed through grading, or 14 if necessary, trucking off-site. 15 But -- so from our 16 perspective under the current zoning, 17 you would see, you know, five 18 single-family homes. One acre lots -- 19 well, actually larger than one acre 20 lots, and about 18,000 square feet of 21 office. 22 Alternatively, that rear 23 property could easily be used as a 24 cemetery still. Under the Zoning
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1 Ordinance, the existing cemetery -- the 2 way the Ordinance was set-up -- it 3 does allow for some expansion -- would 4 allow for some of the cemetery, as long 5 as the as cemetery owned the property 6 and was a lawful use at the time the 7 Ordinance was enacted, which it was. 8 So anything that is 9 contiguous in that quarter section 10 right now, could theoretically be used 11 as a cemetery; with the exception of 12 the three office parcels on 12 Mile 13 Road that currently exist. 14 So from our perspective, I 15 mean, it could be used under it's given 16 use. We've seen -- we've heard a lot 17 that the office market is suffering 18 right now. The numbers show that, but 19 the numbers also show that Novi has 20 always shown in conjunction with 21 Farmington Hills. So if you read into 22 that, the Farmington Hills market is 23 experiencing upwards of a 20 percent 24 vacancy rate; whereas, Novi -- in a lot
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1 of cases -- is around ten percent, and 2 even lower -- especially if you take 3 out some of the buildings that Northern 4 Equities built for a tenant and then 5 had a tenant go to another one of their 6 buildings, actually. 7 So we actually have in 8 queue right now, probably 200,000 9 square feet of office space that you're 10 going to see start building here in the 11 next few months. So I don't 12 necessarily -- I think that, you know, 13 (unintelligible) and the various office 14 people who are listening right now and 15 the market studies, maybe they should 16 break Novi out in their own City; make 17 us look a little bit better. 18 Outside of that, I think 19 the -- one of the final things you 20 really need to look at is from the 21 perspective that the north side of 12 22 Mile Road -- what mainly's from Novi 23 Road to M-5 is wide open. There's 24 really nothing there, and that's due in
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1 large part to the Michigan State Toll 2 Gate Educational Facility. It's -- 3 that currently exists. 4 There was a lot of talk in 5 the master plan, and I wouldn't be 6 doing my job if I didn't say the 7 Planning Commission's desire is to see 8 that remain the way it is, and that is 9 how the master plan it is set up right 10 now. 11 If by some reason that 12 changes, what has gone on around that 13 property, will drive that property. We 14 can guarantee it. And we have had 15 several meetings with people that own 16 property at Meadowbrook and 12 Mile, 17 and have told them we are not -- we're 18 going to hold the line here; because 19 whatever you do is going to effect this 20 property. 21 And the same can be said 22 for the other side. Whatever happens 23 largely on this property -- because 24 it's directly adjacent -- will have an
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1 affect there on the Toll Gate property. 2 So that's something, that as a staff, 3 we've kept in the back of our minds 4 throughout our review of this process; 5 in that, the decision that we advocate 6 here is going into have a large effect 7 on a quarter section of this town at a 8 time when we're going to be close to 9 build out. That will be a large 10 development, if that ever occurs. 11 So that's where we've come 12 from in this Odessey. I'd be happy to 13 answer any questions on how we put 14 together our report or how we got to 15 this point, but that's sort of the way 16 we've looked at it all along. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 18 you. 19 Board Members, any 20 questions? 21 Seeing none -- 22 I'm sorry, Mr. Gillam, if 23 we offer to table this, we need to call 24 a Motion to table at this time.
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1 MR. GILLIAM: I agree that there 2 has to be a Motion to table. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 4 MEMBER CANUP: I'll make a 5 Motion to table. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So 8 (unintelligible) to send it back to the attorney. 9 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 11 MEMBER CANUP: 12 (unintelligible) to give our attorneys 13 an opportunity to start a fire, if 14 possible -- Motion that could be made 15 in this case. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 17 It's been moved and 18 seconded by Member Bauer and Member 19 Sanghvi together. 20 Any further discussion? 21 MR. GILLIAM: Madam Chair, just 22 to clarify so I understand. So the Zoning Board 23 want us to come back with the post findings in 24 support of a denial of the request --
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That is 2 correct. 3 Based on lack of proof that 4 it couldn't be used for anything else. 5 MEMBER CANUP: Madam Chair, 6 is that an advisable thing to do from a 7 legal stand point, to come back with a 8 Motion to deny; rather than a Motion to 9 approve and a Motion to deny? 10 If we're going to do this, 11 we need to did it correctly. 12 MR. GILLIAM: We come back 13 basically with any recommendation that you see 14 fit. It's my understanding from the discussion 15 that the Zoning Board had at the last meeting, 16 the discussions I've heard, in light of the 17 comments Mr. Schmitt has made, that there doesn't 18 seem to be a sense that the applicant has met 19 their burden of showing that they meet all the 20 criteria for the use variance. 21 You know, if you would like 22 me to bring back an alternative 23 recommendation, as well, I can do that. 24 That's not a problem.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 2 MR. GILLIAM: It's my sense from 3 the earlier discussion -- 4 And Brent, I know you 5 weren't here last month -- 6 MEMBER CANUP: Right. 7 MR. GILLIAM: But my sense was 8 that the request was just for postponing in 9 support of a negative comment or a negative 10 decision. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Right. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 MEMBER CANUP: That's fine. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No more 15 vacations for you, youngman. 16 Okay. Gail, would you 17 please call the roll. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member 23 Brennan? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member 2 Gronachan? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member 5 Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member 8 Fischer? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 11 six to zero. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 MR. KELESIC: I'll see you 14 next month. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: See you next 16 month, again. 17 MR. KELESIC: Okay, thanks. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 19 20 All right. Moving right 21 along. Case Number 05-015 filed by 22 Vipen Khetarpal for a residence at 23 46470 at West 10 Mile, located north of 24 10 Mile, between Taft and Beck Road.
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1 The Petitioner is 2 requesting a variance to allow 3 construction of a 1304 square foot 4 attached garage to a proposed new home 5 located at the above address. 6 And you are? 7 MR. KHETARPAL: I'm Vipen 8 Khetarpal. 9 Good evening. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good evening. 11 Would you please raise your 12 right hand and be sworn in by our 13 secretary. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 15 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 16 truth regarding case, 05-015? 17 MR. KHETARPAL: I do. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, 19 sir. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 21 proceed. 22 MR. KHETARPAL: This 23 evening, I'm here to request another 24 variance for our house. I was here in
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1 February and some how this particular 2 issue of a bigger garage or full-size 3 garage was listed in the preview. So 4 as soon I submitted prints to the 5 Building Department, they called and 6 said, well, I have to come back for 7 variance again. 8 So this is reason why I'm 9 here again, this month. We have a 10 house and you have some prints with 11 you -- may I show this again or no 12 need? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We've got 14 them. We have the same copy that you provided. 15 MR. KHETARPAL: Right. 16 So we're a four member 17 household and have four cars. And most 18 of the cars need to be parked inside 19 the house. We also have lot of yard 20 equipment, because we have four acre of 21 property, our lawnmower, tiller, that 22 need to be also kept inside, once we 23 have the barn and such demolished. 24 So we feel it would be
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1 necessary for us to have a larger 2 garage than usual. We're also building 3 a 5200 square foot house, and a 4 four-car garage is -- goes well with 5 this kind of house. And if we were to 6 make a smaller garage with this size 7 building, we feel that the property 8 would not be as appreciable as it 9 should be, or will not regard to the 10 size of the house. 11 We also have setbacks that 12 are already established; and we are not 13 close to any other properties, so this 14 would not interfere or cause any 15 negative impact to properties close to 16 us, by having a little bit bigger 17 garage. 18 So these are the reason I 19 feel are necessary for us to request 20 this variance. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 22 you. 23 Is there anyone in the 24 audience that wishes to make comment in
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1 regards to this case? 2 Seeing none, there were 44 3 notices mailed; one approval. 4 Building Department: 5 MR. SAVEN: This is 6 basically -- he was before us 7 previously regarding this particular 8 issue for his home on the property. 9 There's also an accessory structures on 10 that particular property, that 11 everybody was very concerned about. 12 Anyhow that was basically what we were 13 dealing with, was those accessory 14 buildings. We wanted to make sure they 15 were coming down (unintelligible) 16 portion of that (unintelligible) 17 building, which you recall. 18 MR. KHETARPAL: And I last 19 time agreed that one of the back ends 20 which was falling apart, we will take 21 it down before groundbreaking. 22 MR. SAVEN: You folks should 23 be aware, the neighbors are going to be 24 watching you very carefully.
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1 MR. KHETARPAL: I 2 personally told you that we will do 3 that. You can come and witness itself, 4 we'll take care of -- that one 5 particular area which is not in good 6 shape. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 8 Board Members? 9 Member Canup? 10 MEMBER CANUP: You know, 11 given the size of the property and the 12 size of the house that is going there, 13 it seems to fit fairly well. And, in 14 fact, as everyone knows, I'm an 15 advocate -- you've never got enough 16 garage space. 17 So with that, I will be 18 willing to make a Motion that in Case 19 Number 05-015, that we grant the 20 variance as requested due to the 21 uniqueness of the property and the size 22 of the home. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been
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1 moved and seconded. 2 Is there any further 3 discussion on the Motion? 4 Member Bauer? 5 Member Brennan, I'm sorry. 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: Amendment 7 on the Motion. I just want some 8 clarification on the Petitioner's 9 utilization of what you're calling a 10 bonus room above the garage. 11 MR. KHETARPAL: The bonus 12 room right now, we're not going to 13 build anything there. It's going to be 14 mostly used for stocking things. But 15 later on if we feel that we want to do 16 something there, we may build an 17 entertainment room there, just isolate 18 it. 19 But right now, it's going 20 to be mostly storage. 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: Don, 22 what's the -- 23 MR. SAVEN: It's part of 24 the house (unintelligible.)
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Pardon? 2 MR. SAVEN: It's part of 3 the house. It's a living space area. 4 MEMBER BRENNAN: You've got 5 no issue with the utilization of that 6 room? 7 MR. SAVEN: No. The area's 8 going to the house. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'm fine. 10 Thank you. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 12 Anything else? 13 Gail, would you please call 14 the roll. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 16 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Brennan? 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member 23 Gronachan? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member 2 Sanghvi? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member 5 Fischer? 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 8 six to 0. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variance 10 has been granted. We'll be out -- 11 MR. KHETARPAL: Thank you 12 very much. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We'll come to 14 look. 15 MR. KHETARPAL: Yes, 16 definitely. You're welcome. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 18 19 Next case, Case Number 20 05-016 filed by MLS Sign Company 21 representing Sunoco Gas Station, 22 located at 43601 Grand River Avenue, 23 west of Novi road and east of Flint 24 Road.
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1 You are? 2 MR. MACKET: Good afternoon. 3 My name is Allen Macket. I am the 4 owner/operator of the Sunoco Station. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 6 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by 7 our secretary. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 9 solemnly swear or affirm to the truth 10 regarding, Case 05-016? 11 MR. MACKET: I do. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, 13 sir. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 15 proceed. 16 MR. MACKET: Thank you, 17 Madam Chair. 18 We're just requesting a 19 variance to those two signs five feet 20 two inches, 18 inches in height, on the 21 canopy, due to the fact, of course, I'm 22 sure, (unintelligible) sign. You've 23 seen our monument sign. It's pushed 24 back a little bit.
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1 We've had a lot of instance 2 where the customers, by the time they 3 get to where we're at, they've already 4 passed us. They hadn't seen anything. 5 And we're open 24 hours. 6 As far as the canopy is 7 concerned, the City mandated that we 8 put a lot of those very small dim 9 lights on the canopy, so it's kind of 10 dim, as well. We're just looking for 11 some identification signs, so someone 12 can see that sign before they actually 13 get to the site, coming off the bridge. 14 And I'm sure you've seen 15 it. They're not very big, and not very 16 obstructive; and that is the reason why 17 we are hopefully trying to get this 18 done. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 20 Anything else. 21 MR. MACKET: No. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there 23 anyone in the audience that wishes to make 24 comment in regards --
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1 MR. BEGOLD: Yes I would 2 like to make comment. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would 4 you please come to the podium. 5 MR. BEGOLD: My name is Lee 6 Begold. I reside at 43707 Grand River. 7 I've resided in Novi since the early 8 1950's. Admittedly, the first few 9 years, my apartment was at the fire 10 hall. I was the director of Public 11 Safety, in charge of police and fire. 12 Therefore, the only full-time fireman. 13 I had to live there to 14 drive the engines at night. I had no 15 police officers; therefore, I was the 16 police chief. However, as Novi grew, 17 as the Township grew, my apartment was 18 needed for administrative purposes. I 19 moved to my present residence on Grand 20 River. I purchased it. Consisted of 21 two large lots. 22 In those days, Novi had 23 multiple gas stations and restaurants 24 and little else. One of the gas
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1 stations was located next to my home, 2 separated by Flint Street and the Rouge 3 River. That station was a disaster. 4 The minute the freeway 5 opened, it was a death (unintelligible) 6 of that and the Sunoco, farther down, 7 where the bank and -- Bank One is 8 located today. I didn't ever want to 9 see another gas station there. 10 Fortunately, it was a hulk for years. 11 I'm sure you all remember. They took 12 it out a year and a half ago or so. 13 When the present gas 14 station came in, my eyes were opened. 15 That gas station is an asset to Novi. 16 It's clean, it's well managed. There 17 are no problems. There is no traffic. 18 It's administered excellently. They 19 stand for no nonsense. It's a 24-hour 20 station. 21 We used to have a 24-hour 22 station, operated by Leo Harwood. He 23 stood for no nonsense. He operated a 24 gas station we were all proud of. I'm
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1 proud of this station. I want to keep 2 it in Novi. I feel it may not remain, 3 unless it's allowed these signs. 4 The reasons I say that are 5 these: If your approaching from the 6 west, if you're a stranger, you don't 7 see it until you're about by it. 8 Another reason is the long line of cars 9 lined-up to make a left turn. They're 10 east bound on Grand River; they wish to 11 go northbound on Novi Road. That line 12 extends passed my house. I can get out 13 of my driveway to make a left turn. 14 The people going west, 15 cannot make a left turn into the gas 16 station. I think the City of Novi 17 should do everything possible to keep 18 this fine station in operation. Now I 19 realized that I've talked perhaps 20 longer that the rules allowed, but 21 remember, I represent a group; every 22 resident in the affected area -- and 23 I'm the whole group; a one-man group. 24 Therefore I'll talk a little longer.
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1 No, I'll spare you that. 2 Thank you all. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you, 4 Chief. 5 Is it there anyone else in 6 the audience that wishes to make 7 comments? 8 Okay. There were 21 9 notices made; no objections, no 10 approvals. 11 Building Department? 12 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You can't top 14 that now, (unintelligible) not in a million 15 years. 16 Board Members? 17 Member Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, 19 unfortunately, I can't support it. 20 We've got some pretty strict 21 Ordinances, especially with the lights 22 of these gas stations, as I've gone 23 around and looked at stations -- 24 especially, the newer stations that
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1 have been erected in the last eight, 2 nine years that I've been on this 3 Board. 4 We've been pretty 5 consistent with signage. The only 6 signage that's on these overhead 7 canopies are older stations that, when 8 we get the opportunity will no longer 9 be there. 10 We can only grant a 11 hardship -- or a variance when 12 hardship's been demonstrated. And I 13 don't know that we saw a lot of real 14 facts documentation. But that's just 15 my feelings. 16 Thank you. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Anyone else? 18 Member Bauer? 19 No, Member Canup? 20 You know what, you guys are 21 all moved down; and Frank's pushed out 22 of the way and I can't really see you 23 guys. So that's where the problem is. 24 And the only thing I see is Member
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1 Bauer. So he's going to get called on 2 all night. 3 Member Canup? 4 MEMBER CANUP: Anyway, I 5 use that station frequently, and don't 6 have any trouble finding it. And I 7 think it's more of a local-use station 8 than a transit-use station, because 9 Grand River is more local people up and 10 down Grand River. Anybody that's 11 transit, would be on the expressway. 12 He certainly don't want to 13 have signs that you can see from the 14 expressway. So I would have to concur 15 with Member Brennan. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 17 Member Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: I am going 19 to have to disagree with the two 20 previous speakers. I feel that this 21 station -- especially after the Expo 22 Center moves it's not going to be just 23 a local station. There's going to be 24 traffic getting -- as much as we don't
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1 want it -- still using Novi Road to go 2 to the Expo Center. 3 This is something that 4 people from all around Metro Detroit 5 will be going to, and this station 6 should be able to benefit off of that. 7 If people are pulling up, seeing that 8 this is a gas station after the fact, 9 slowing down quickly on -- that stretch 10 is 40 miles per hour between there I 11 believe -- and then stopping, I feel a 12 safety hazard there. 13 This is a unique condition. 14 If you think of gas stations in the 15 surrounding area -- there's a Sunoco 16 right on the corner of Novi and Grand 17 River. There are gas stations right on 18 Novi and 12 Mile. This one's tucked in 19 there a little bit. 20 So for identification 21 purposes -- because of the bridge being 22 there -- I feel it's -- they have shown 23 a practical difficulty, and that there 24 would be some traffic concerns if
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1 weren't to allow some type of 2 additional identification. Let's also 3 not forget that this -- the major 4 pricing sign was put within the 5 Ordnance. They did not ask for a 6 request, as other gas stations have. 7 And by doing so, it's tucked in a 8 little bit of landscaping. 9 And my recommendation is to 10 keep the landscaping. I think it likes 11 absolutely fabulous? 12 MR. MACKET: Thank you. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: So 14 therefore, I would be willing to 15 support a Motion to approve these 16 canopy signs. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 18 Sanghvi? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 20 Madam Chair. 21 I agree with Mr. Fischer. 22 It may not be difficult for somebody 23 who has lived in Novi for all these 24 years to fine that place -- and I know
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1 my friend Mr. Canup has been here for 2 along time. But it is not a very 3 easily discernible sign, the way it is. 4 And what they are asking 5 for, is a relatively unobtrusive sign, 6 which can be visible from a distance. 7 It should give adequate time for the 8 motorist to slow down, to come inside 9 the gas station and do whatever they 10 need to do. 11 So I have no hesitation in 12 supporting this Applicant's request. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You want to 14 go or you want me to go? Do you have anything to 15 say? Do you have something else, I'm sorry. 16 Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: I just want 18 to point out that when they did erect 19 the station, they did ask for a 20 variance to put up a sign in the front, 21 and we denied that variance. 22 So it wasn't that they 23 didn't ask for it. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm going
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1 play devil's advocate in bright yellow -- left my 2 hallow and wings at home. 3 First off, this Petitioner 4 did ask for a variance before, and they 5 did work with us, this Board and went 6 back and put the sign back where it 7 needed to be without a variance. I 8 think that needs to be commended. 9 I concur with the two 10 previous speakers, as well as the 11 resident, in that I think that when 12 you're coming down Grand River -- and 13 if you're not a resident of Novi, it's 14 kind of a dark approach. I'm not big 15 on signs and over populating signs on 16 businesses. 17 So when you're coming 18 eastbound on Grand River, it's kind of 19 a dark corner, so to speak. It doesn't 20 -- there's not a lot of lighting. 21 There's is not anything that jumps out 22 at going -- don't run out of gas, 23 because I'm right here. So that is why 24 I concur with the other two speakers,
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1 and can support it; given the angle of 2 the road; the location of the building; 3 and the inability to readily identify 4 the business, where it is standing. 5 Member Bauer? 6 MEMBER BAUER: I work across 7 the street from this. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I usually 9 beep and wave when I go by. 10 MEMBER BAUER: And when the 11 traffic is backed up in the left turn 12 lane, these people have to go all the 13 way down and make a U-turn and come 14 back to that station. Now, I don't 15 know if it's because of signs being up 16 there now or not. And I don't know if 17 I am for it or against it; but I'll 18 tell you, the station has a lot of 19 traffic. 20 And that sign that they do 21 have, the ground sign, (unintelligible) 22 you know, the bridge there, kind of 23 blocks it out. So I just wanted to let 24 you know, it is a actual automobile
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1 hazard. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 3 Fischer? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: I guess 5 with that, I would like to attempt a 6 Motion. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: I move that 9 in Case Number, 05-016, we approve the 10 Petitioner's request. I believe the 11 Petitioner has established a practical 12 difficulty, in that traffic would be 13 safer in the area, if these signs were 14 allowed. 15 And that the Petitioner has 16 established that the variance is not 17 self-created, due to the new Grand 18 River Bridge. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 21 moved and seconded. 22 Any further discussion? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Question, 24 yes.
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1 Given the comments by a 2 couple Board Members relative to the 3 Bridge being the biggest problem, would 4 you necessarily need both signs in your 5 Motion? 6 MR. MACKET: is that to me, 7 the question? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: No. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's to 10 the maker of the Motion. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: I have 12 really no issue with the second sign. 13 I still feel that the landscaping 14 blocks the major price sign. Second of 15 all, it done impair the adjacent 16 properties that way, because those are 17 all businesses. And so the 18 residents -- there are no residents or 19 that side. The one resident that is 20 here in support, is on other side. 21 So I will leave the Motion, 22 as is. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: If I can
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1 mention one more thing on the Mobile 2 sign, it does have (unintelligible) 3 sign facing east. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It does have 5 a what? I'm sorry. 6 MEMBER BAUER: It has a 7 Mobile sign 8 on the canopy. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, okay, 10 okay. 11 Anything further? 12 Board members? 13 Gail, would you please 14 call the roll? 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member 16 Fischer. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member 19 Sanghvi? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Aye. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member 24 Brennan?
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: No. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 3 MEMBER CANUP: No. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member 5 Gronachan? 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 8 four to two? 9 MR. MACKET: Thank you very 10 much. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right 12 good luck, to you. 13 MR. MACKET: Thank you. 14 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We will now 16 call Case Number 05-017, filed by Mary Czarnecki 17 of North Star Signs Inc, for two real estate 18 signs for Cushman and Wakefield, located at 41441 19 and 41651 West 11 Mile. 20 This case was previously 21 known as ZBA 05-012; which was tabled 22 by the Board last month, when the 23 Petitioner withdrew the application and 24 filed a new application before us this
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1 evening. 2 And you are? 3 MR. ASH: I'm. Rob Ash, 4 North Star Signs. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would 6 you please raise your right hand and be sworn in 7 by our secretary. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 9 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 10 truth regarding case, 05-017? 11 MR. ASH: I do. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, 13 sir. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 15 proceed. 16 MR. ASH: You know, I have 17 been in front of your guys numerous 18 times; and it's essentially the same 19 situation. The allowable square 20 footage, which is six square feet, 21 really doesn't -- in my opinion at 22 least -- adequately represent 23 particularly these two buildings -- 24 which I believe exceed somewhere around
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1 150,000 square feet combined. 2 You know, so it's pretty 3 simple. If you're looking to place a 4 six foot by six foot sign, one on 11 5 Mile and one on Meadowbrook Road -- 15 6 foot setback which takes it, I think it 7 ends up being more than 40 feet away 8 from the street -- and that's pretty 9 tough to read, if it's a two foot by 10 three foot sign. 11 So that's the hardship, and 12 we're just requesting a larger sign, so 13 we can get some visibility, so we can 14 get some tenants moved into these 15 buildings. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 17 you. 18 Is there anyone here that 19 wishes to make comment in the matter of 20 this case? 21 Seeing none, there were 15 22 notices sent; no approvals, no 23 objections. 24 Building Department?
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1 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no 2 comments. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 4 Members? 5 Member Brennan? 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: This 7 request is consistent with these large 8 commercial real estate holdings. Given 9 that they're on two main arteries, I 10 don't have any problem supporting this. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 12 you. 13 Anyone else? 14 Member Fischer? 15 MEMBER FISCHER: You stated 16 that one of the signs was going to be 17 40 feet back? 18 MR. ASH: I believe the one 19 on 11 Mile is about -- ends up being -- 20 with the 15 foot setback -- ends up 21 being about 40 feet off of 11 Mile. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Uh-huh. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay, 24 thank you.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: I don't see a 3 problem whatsoever. The buildings 4 aren't moving too fast right now so, I 5 don't have any problem. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is that a 7 Motion? 8 MEMBER BAUER: No. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 10 like it to be one? 11 MEMBER BAUER: No. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. I'd 14 make a Motion with respect Case, 15 05-017, that the Petitioner's request 16 for these two signs be granted for the 17 purpose of leasing out these large 18 commercial buildings. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 21 moved and seconded. 22 Any further discussion on 23 the Motion? 24 Mr. Gilliam?
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: For one 2 year, I'm sorry. I had it written 3 down. I didn't say it. 4 Try it for a year and see 5 how it goes? 6 MR. ASH: That would be 7 acceptable, sir. 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's 9 good. 10 Thanks. 11 One year. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Anything 13 else? 14 Gail, would you please call 15 the roll. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member 17 Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Fischer? 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup?
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1 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member 3 Gronachan? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member 6 Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 9 six to zero. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variance 11 has been granted. Please see the Building 12 Department. 13 Good luck to you. 14 15 Okay. Case Number, 05-018, 16 filed by William W. Dinnan, III, for 17 102 Lashbrook, located north of 13 Mile 18 and east of East Lake Drive. 19 Mr. Dinnan is requesting 20 two front setbacks -- variances for the 21 construction of a new home at the above 22 address. 23 And you are? 24 MR. DINNAN: William Dinnan, III.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 2 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by 3 our secretary. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 5 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 6 truth regarding, case, 05-018? 7 MR. DINNAN: I do. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 9 You may proceed. 10 MR. DINNAN: In the interest 11 of time, I'll just be brief. I wanted 12 to just address the satellite photo 13 that was included in your package 14 there. There's a bunch of colored 15 lines that there was no explanation, so 16 I just wanted to take a quick second to 17 clarify. 18 It was meant to be drawn as 19 close to scale as possible. The yellow 20 lines indicate lines that connect the 21 fronts of homes that are on the both 22 corners. The green are meant to 23 represent what the normal setback 24 restriction is without variances would
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1 be; and the orange is the request. 2 I just wanted to point out 3 that there were efforts made to keep 4 the structure away from the neighbors, 5 more congruent with the neighborhood; 6 and in a personal matter, allow myself 7 and my family to have semi-private 8 backyard for my newborn child to play 9 in. 10 With that, I'll just leave 11 myself available to questions. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 13 you. 14 Is there anyone in the 15 audience that wishes to make comment in 16 the matter of this case? 17 There were 61 notices 18 mailed, two approvals, no objections. 19 Building Department? 20 MR. SAVEN: Just to point 21 out, this is a corner lot, and there's 22 two frontages. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry. 24 You lost me on that. A corner lot and what?
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1 MR. SAVEN: There are two 2 frontages associated with this lot. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 4 Is that your little one 5 back there? 6 MR. DINNAN: I apologize if 7 he was making too much noise. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No, he 9 wasn't. Is it a boy or a girl? 10 MR. DINNAN: A little boy, 11 Sean William. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sean gets a 13 gold star for most cooperative Petitioner this 14 evening, so far. 15 Board members? 16 Member Brennan? 17 MEMBER BRENNAN: Can you go 18 back over those colors again because 19 I'm color blind. Tell me which one is 20 yellow. 21 MR. DINNAN: I apologize. I 22 should have put a legend there. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's 24 fine.
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1 Just tell me. 2 MR. DINNAN: The yellow 3 lines are meant to show connecting 4 basically the fronts of houses that are 5 already on this street. 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: All right. 7 MR. DINNAN: To show that 8 the request is not putting this house 9 out any farther than the other houses 10 on the street. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Next color. 12 MR. DINNAN: The orange is 13 the requested envelope, based on the 14 plot plan that you've been provided. 15 And the green lines were meant to 16 represent what the setback requirements 17 would be without variance. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: It was the 19 green and orange that gave me trouble. 20 Thank you. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 Board Members? 23 Member Canup? 24 MEMBER CANUP: What is the
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1 distance from your garage entrance 2 there to the road, for the 3 right-of-way, I'll put it that way. 4 Looks like you've got 20 feet plus 5 maybe another 15? 6 MR. DINNAN: Approximately. 7 (unintelligible.) 8 MEMBER CANUP: That's 9 plenty of room (unintelligible) parking 10 a car. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Exactly my 12 comments. It's a sufficient drive. 13 MEMBER CANUP: I guess I, 14 for one, don't have a problem with the 15 variances that have been requested. 16 If there's no further 17 discussion, I would make a Motion. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 19 MEMBER CANUP: What am I 20 looking for, let's see, in Case Number, 21 05-018, filed by Mr. William Dinnan, 22 that we grant the variance as 23 requested, due to the uniqueness and 24 the size of lot; and the fact that he
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1 does have two front yards under 2 Ordinance. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 5 moved and seconded. 6 Is there any further 7 discussion on the Motion? 8 Seeing none, Gail, would 9 you please call the roll. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 11 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member 15 Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member 18 Gronachan? 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member 24 Fischer?
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 3 six to zero. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 5 you very much. 6 Your variance has been 7 granted. We want to see Sean when he's 8 walking. 9 MR. DINNAN: Thank you. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good luck to 11 you. 12 13 Our next Case is 05-019, 14 filed by Michael and Amy Glenn at 49235 15 West 11 Mile Road, located south of 11 16 Mile, between Wixom and Taft. 17 Michael and Amy Glenn are 18 requesting three variances, for the 19 construction of an addition on their 20 existing home at the above address. 21 And you are? 22 Ms. GLENN: Amy Glenn. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good evening. 24 And would you -- are you
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1 the only one speaking in this case? Is 2 there someone else with you this 3 evening? 4 MS. GLENN: No, just me. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 6 raise your right hand and be sworn in. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 8 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 9 truth regarding, Case, 05-019? 10 MS. GLENN: I do. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 13 proceed. 14 MS. GLENN: We are here 15 because we have a home that was built 16 in 1958 when the setbacks weren't 17 exactly what you require currently. 18 Right now the setbacks we're requesting 19 are the setbacks in place for the 20 garage on the east side. 21 We really need to update 22 the home. We need some additional 23 space, because we have three kids, 24 instead of two. And the garage needs
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1 some renovation. So the most feasible 2 location for that renovation is the 3 east side. 4 I can't put a two-car 5 garage there without the -- keeping the 6 boundary where it currently is. 7 So unless you have any 8 other questions, that's basically what 9 my request is. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 11 you. 12 Is there anyone in the 13 audience that wishes to make comment on 14 this case? 15 Seeing none, there were 16 eight notices mailed; no approvals, no 17 objections. 18 Building Department? 19 I guess he walked out for a 20 minute. 21 Board Members? 22 Member Fischer? 23 MEMBER FISCHER: I would 24 just like to point out that this
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1 Petitioner -- the house is already -- 2 the current foundation is already 14 3 and a half feet from the lot line. All 4 they're doing is building north and 5 south, it looks like, along that 6 already established setback. 7 You know, I guess I can't 8 see many more -- much more of a 9 hardship when the house was put in 10 place when the Ordinances were 11 different. And when they look to 12 update, we try to put the new 13 Ordinances on them. 14 So I feel sympathy for the 15 Petitioner, and I do see a practical 16 difficulty in this case. 17 Thank you, Madam Chair. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Other Board 19 Members? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: One 21 question. On this sheet, there's 22 minimum (unintelligible) both side 23 yards 15 feet, proposed aggregate for 24 both side yards, 29 feet. So the
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1 variance requested is it 11, or 21? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Correct. 3 It's 11. It should be 21. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So the 5 variance requested should be 21, instead of 11. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Anyway, 7 whatever may be the answer, I have no 8 problem with granting the variance 9 because of those special circumstances 10 of this particular Applicant and the 11 house. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But it wasn't 13 advertised properly. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 MR. SAVEN: It was 16 advertised in the formal request. If 17 you go up to the top, it says, 18 Applicant is requesting east side yard 19 setback variance of 5.5 feet, a west 20 side setback variance of 15.5 -- 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 21 feet. 22 MR. SAVEN: And an 23 aggregate side yard variance of 21 24 feet.
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1 MEMBER BAUER: That's 2 correct. 3 MR. SAVEN: Typographical 4 error. 5 MR. GILLIAM: Madam Chair, I 6 don't see any problem with he notice in this 7 case. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 9 Thank you, Mr. Gilliam. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: I was 11 going to ask him what he thought, being 12 the all knowledgeable buddy of ours. 13 In that case, I would like 14 to make a Motion -- if there's no other 15 discussion -- that in Case Number, 16 05-019, we approval the Petitioner's 17 request, given that they have 18 established a practical difficulty, 19 given the lot configuration; as well as 20 the fact that the house is already 21 built (unintelligible) to 22 specifications. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been
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1 moved and seconded. 2 Any further discussion on 3 the Motion? 4 Seeing none, Gail, would 5 you please call the roll. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member 7 Fischer? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member 10 Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member 15 Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Gronachan? 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 23 six to zero. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Your
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1 variance -- 2 MS. GLENN: Thank you. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- has been 4 granted. 5 Good luck to you. 6 MS. GLENN: Thank you. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Please see 8 the Building Department. 9 MS. GLENN: All right. 10 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Our 12 next Case, 05-020, filed by Mark Kassab with PT 13 Commence LLC, for Lenox Park, located at 40812 14 West 13 Mile. 15 Mr. Kassab is requesting 16 two sign variances to erect an 17 additional ground sign, for he purpose 18 of marketing for Lenox Park, located at 19 the above address. 20 Good evening. 21 MR. KASSAB: Good evening, 22 Madam Chair. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And you are? 24 MR. KASSAB: Mark Kassab.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 2 please raise your right hand to be sworn in by 3 our secretary. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 5 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 6 truth in case 05-020? 7 MR. KASSAB: I do. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, 9 sir. 10 MR. KASSAB: Thank you. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Go ahead. 12 MR. KASSAB: Thank you, 13 Madam. 14 A. Chair. 15 As many of you know, we've had 16 this project approved for roughly nine or ten 17 months. It's 190 unit duplex condominiums. If 18 you don't mind, I'll step around, if I may. This 19 site has unique characteristics. It's on two 20 main arteries, the first being 13 Mile Road and 21 M-5. We've had many inquires coming into our 22 sales trailer, in that we didn't know how to 23 access the site. It was a continuation of 24 Erickson, a continuation of Haverhill --
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1 actually, coming in to the church. 2 We share a common entrance way 3 with the church, the Brightmore Christian Church. 4 We're asking the ZBA for consideration for an 5 additional sign along the M-5, which is currently 6 in place as allowed by the City as a mockup sign, 7 but it's actually the original sign. 8 The size of the sign is 10 by 9 16, only because there's about 125 foot 10 right-of-way on M-5. So it's not like driving on 11 13 Mile. 12 That being said, I know you have 13 a long evening. I'd be more than happy to answer 14 any questions. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right, 16 thank you. 17 Is there anyone in the 18 audience that wishes to make comment in 19 regards to this case? 20 Seeing none, there were 13 21 notices sent; no objections, no 22 approvals. 23 Building Department: 24 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment.
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1 MR. SAVEN: This is a very 2 difficult site to deal with -- 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Are you on? 4 MR. SAVEN: This is a very 5 difficult site to deal with, as far as 6 the location that they are at, at the 7 present time, because it is adjacent to 8 Fox Run; and New Heaven, which is right 9 in front, which is the school, 10 Brightmore Tabernacle. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 12 Board Members? 13 Member Sanghvi? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 I have no problem with 16 granting the variance requested by the 17 Applicant. This is a difficult area 18 where this place is located, and 19 putting a sign on 13 Mile Road won't do 20 anybody any harm, but some good to 21 them, possibly, that people might see 22 it has they are driving by at 50 miles 23 an hour. 24 I can very easily support
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1 the Applicant's request. 2 Thank you. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 4 Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just a 6 question for the Petitioner. 7 One of your comments -- in 8 fact I'll just read this -- in response 9 from our potential residents were such 10 that they weren't sure how to access 11 this site, if it was accessible from 13 12 or 14. You don't seem to address that 13 in the verbiage on here. 14 MR. KASSAB: Well, you know, 15 that's a good point, sir. 16 And if you're driving 17 northbound on M-5, as I did many a time 18 prior to attending this meeting this 19 evening, it's very difficult to even 20 the see the sign. You know, this is 21 more of a directional sign, so we're 22 hoping folks heading southbound -- this 23 is meant to capture the southbound 24 traffic on M-5, pointing them to turn
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1 on 13 Mile Road. 2 If the Board so pleases, 3 we'd love to increase the sign to 20 by 4 20, and make it a billboard size to 5 capture north and southbound. But at 6 this point, we're just looking to 7 capture the southbound -- 8 MEMBER BAUER: I don't think 9 so. 10 MR. KASSAB: -- traffic. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: You want 12 another idea? 13 MR. KASSAB: Sure. 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Some how in 15 this -- you make your own sign. I'm 16 just suggesting that -- you depicted 17 that your problem is people couldn't 18 find it. And it might be clever to say 19 exit at 13 Mile. 20 MR. KASSAB: Good point. 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's your 22 sign. Just a casual observation? 23 MR. KASSAB: That's a fair 24 comment, sir.
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1 Thank you. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Very casual. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I was a 4 afraid of that (unintelligible.) 5 Member Fischer? 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Have you 7 sold any units yet, sir. 8 MR. KASSAB: We have, sir. 9 We've sold approximately 15 to 17 units 10 out of the sale trailer. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Percentage? 12 Would that be difficult? 13 MR. KASSAB: 190 units, 12 14 percent, ten percent. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Well, 16 below any point where I would suggest 17 not having a sign, so. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Those are 19 just the ones that could find it. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Yeah. 21 I don't have no problem 22 either. M-5 is quite a speedy place; 23 and some people, I've heard even go 24 faster than the posted speed limit, but
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1 I'll leave that for our police. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is that a 3 Motion? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: I would 5 like to make a Motion. 6 That in Case Number, 7 05-020, filed by Mark Kassab, we grant 8 the Petitioner's request for reasoning 9 of site identification for the time 10 period -- 11 What are you looking at? 12 MR. KASSAB: You know, I'm 13 not sure if the City would allow a 14 permanent sign, only because we are 15 going to have entire border heavily 16 landscaped, along the M-5 freeway for 17 reasons of shielding to the residents. 18 So we'd like to still have an 19 identification sign. 20 You know, we haven't cut 21 the roads in back there yet. They're 22 still doing our site work, if you 23 would. If we could get a period of two 24 years from the City that, would be
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1 great for us. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: If the 3 Board would allow two years -- I'll 4 start (unintelligible.) 5 MR. SAVEN: It would be up 6 to the (unintelligible) Board Members. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: I would 8 make a Motion to allow for two years. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. It's 11 been moved and seconded. 12 Any further discussion on 13 the Motion? 14 Seeing none, Gail, please 15 call the roll. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member 17 Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Aye. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member
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1 Brennan? 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 4 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member 6 Gronachan? 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 9 six to zero. 10 MR. KASSAB: Thank you. 11 Have a great evening. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 13 Good luck. 14 15 16 Okay. Our next case is 17 05-021, filed by Ann Michael of Gateway 18 Village of Novi, for extension of 19 temporary construction sign at corner 20 of Grand River Portico Lane. 21 Hello. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good evening. 23 You don't look like an Amy. 24 MR. SHOCKER: I'm not Amy.
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1 Amy's not feeling so good, so I'm up to 2 bat. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sorry to hear 4 that. 5 MR. SHOCKER: That's okay. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Her and 7 Justin should get together. 8 MR. SHOCKER: Yes. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And your 10 name? 11 MR. SHOCKER: Michael 12 Shocker. I'm also with the same 13 company, Triangle Development. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 15 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by 16 our secretary. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 18 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 19 truth regarding, Case, 05-021? 20 MR. SHOCKER: Yes, I do. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 23 proceed. 24 MR. SHOCKER: What we're
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1 requesting -- as you know, Gateway 2 Village is 184 unit condominium on 3 Grand River and Meadowbrook there. And 4 basically, we have about 60 of the 184 5 sold at this point. And unfortunately, 6 as optimistic as I like to be, I don't 7 think another year on the sale sign -- 8 we're going to sell-out the remainder 9 120 or so that are left. 10 So what we're requesting, 11 is to have an extension of the typical 12 year extension on the sign of 36 13 months, and/or sell-out. So basically, 14 if we sold out prior to that, we would 15 remove it right away. But we would 16 just like to be able to extend the 17 period, versus the typical 12 months. 18 Because unfortunately -- 19 like I said, as much as I'd like to say 20 it would be sold out, we're going have 21 to have to be back here again to ask 22 for another extension at some point. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 24 Is there anyone in the
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1 audience that wishes to make comment in 2 the matter of this case? 3 Seeing none, there were 19 4 notices sent; no approvals, no 5 objections. 6 Building Department? 7 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 9 Members? 10 Member Canup? 11 MEMBER CANUP: I guess I 12 wouldn't have a problem with a two year 13 extension. I do with three. Three 14 years is a long time. And you have 15 already been in one year, so that would 16 be three years. You'll get it that 17 way. I wouldn't have a problem giving 18 two years from now or until they're 90 19 percent sold out. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry. 21 Member Canup, are you saying two years or 90 22 percent sold out? 23 MEMBER CANUP: 24 (Interposing)(unintelligible.)
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1 I said -- I would make a 2 Motion, that would grant the variance 3 in Case Number, 05-023; is that right. 4 MEMBER BAUER: 2 1. 5 MEMBER CANUP: 2 1 -- that 6 we grant the variance as requested for 7 a period of 24 months or 90 percent 8 sold. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 11 moved and seconded. 12 Any further discussion on 13 the Motion? 14 Seeing none, Gail, would 15 you please call the roll. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member 24 Gronachan?
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member 3 Sanghvi? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member 6 Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 9 six to zero. 10 MR. SHOCKER: Thank you. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You're 12 welcome. Good luck to you. 13 And we hope your partner 14 gets to feeling better. 15 MR. SHOCKER: Thank you. 16 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Case 18 Number 05-023, filed by Mark S. McPherson for 19 Crosspointe Meadows Church, located at 20 Meadowbrook Road between 12 and 13 Mile. 21 Mr. McPherson is requesting 22 a sign extension for the extension of a 23 temporary sign located at the named 24 address.
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1 And you are? 2 MR. McPHERSON: I'm Mark 3 McPherson. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 5 please raise your right hand to be sworn in by 6 our secretary. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 8 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 9 truth regarding case, 05-023? 10 MR. McPHERSON: I do. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 13 proceed. 14 MR. McPHERSON: Okay. Again I'm 15 Mark McPherson from Merritt McPherson Cieslak 16 Architect, here representing Crosspointe Meadows 17 Church. And this evening, we are simply 18 requesting an extension to the existing temporary 19 sign that exists on Meadowbrook Road, between 12 20 and 13 Mile. 21 The sign has been up for several 22 years, and it is located about 15 feet back from 23 the property line. Visible to all passing 24 traffic traveling north and south on Meadowbrook
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1 Road. The sign is identifying the fact that the 2 church intends to build there, as a future home 3 of Crosspointe Meadows Church; and also list the 4 fact that services are currently being held next 5 door at the Meadowbrook Elementary School. 6 The one most significant thing 7 that's happened since our previous request for 8 extension last year, is that the church has 9 submitted drawings to the building 10 department for final site plan approval; with the 11 hope of building relativity soon; dependent on 12 the success of the capital campaign that's 13 currently underway. 14 I'd be happy to answer any 15 questions you might have. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 17 Is there anyone else in the 18 audience that wishes to make comment in 19 regards to this case? 20 Seeing none, there were 49 21 notices sent; no approvals, no 22 objections. 23 Building Department? 24 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 2 Members? 3 The heat must be getting to 4 everybody. 5 Member Canup? 6 MEMBER CANUP: I guess 7 there comes a time where you've got to 8 do something. And this has been three 9 years that this sign has been up there. 10 This is basically an off-site 11 advertising sign for church to be held 12 next door. 13 I guess being that -- they 14 have submitted site plans; is that 15 correct, Don? 16 MR. SAVEN: That's my 17 understanding based upon -- 18 MEMBER CANUP: Under sworn 19 oath, they have submitted a site plan? 20 MR. McPHERSON: Yes, that's 21 under review right now. 22 MEMBER CANUP: What is 23 their timetable? 24 MR. McPHERSON: It will be
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1 dependent on the capital campaign and 2 raising funds. Their hope is to be 3 able to build -- to begin construction 4 prior to the expiration of the site 5 plan approval, which I believe is one 6 year. 7 MEMBER CANUP: I guess I 8 don't have is a problem with granting 9 the one year extension, but I'd like to 10 see something happen at that time. 11 Four years, 5 years -- it's reaching 12 out a long way. 13 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair? 14 What Brent has indicated 15 earlier is the fact that he still has a 16 site plan to be processed. 17 (Unintelligible.) taking that into 18 consideration, that should probably be 19 part of the Motion, that the approval 20 be granted, based upon the final site 21 plan. Determination of the final site 22 plan approval. 23 MEMBER CANUP: Don, if I 24 understand you correctly, what you're
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1 saying is that they are allowed a sign, 2 if they have submitted a site plan, 3 correct? 4 MR. SAVEN: No. The issue 5 is the size of the sign; is that right, 6 Al? 7 MR. AMOLSCH: Right. 8 MR. SAVEN: The issue is 9 the size of the sign, which is why he's 10 here asking for the extension of that 11 size of the sign. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Will you -- 13 MEMBER CANUP: Somebody 14 else make a Motion. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You know 16 what, you lost me. I'm sorry; and I couldn't 17 hear you. 18 MR. SAVEN: What I'm saying 19 is that he does have -- he does have a 20 site plan review going on right now. 21 Okay? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 23 MR. SAVEN: And he is in 24 the process for that site plan to be
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1 reviewed. If nothing's been acted on 2 within a certain amount of time, that 3 site plan becomes invalid. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. 5 MR. SAVEN: So that's -- if 6 you're going to make a Motion 7 (unintelligible) an approval, maybe 8 you'd want to make it contingent upon 9 that length of time for that site plan 10 approval. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Or, maybe 12 we don't. 13 MR. SAVEN: Or maybe you 14 don't. 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: All right. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 17 Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'll make a 19 Motion. I think unlike a lot 20 developments, churches have a little 21 bit difficult -- more difficult time in 22 raising funds. And I guess I'm a 23 little sensitive to that. 24 So I -- without any
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1 contingencies, I'd make a Motion that 2 we grant the variance extension for 3 another year, in hopes that they move 4 things a long. 5 If not, we'll see them in a 6 year. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 9 moved and seconded. 10 Any further discussion? 11 Seeing none, Gail, would 12 you please call the roll. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member 14 Brennan? 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 17 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member 24 Sanghvi?
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1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member 3 Fischer? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 6 six to zero. 7 MR. McPHERSON: Thank you 8 very much. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 10 11 The Board will entertain a 12 five -- a seven minute break at this 13 point in time. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 15 (A brief recess was taken.) 16 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We now 18 call the Zoning Board of Appeals meeting back to 19 order. 20 And proceed with Case 21 Number, 05-024 filed by Abdu Murray 22 from Honigman, Miller, Schwartz and 23 Cohn, LLP for CVS Corporation at 31240 24 Beck Road. This property is Zoned B-3.
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1 And before I let the Petitioner 2 proceed -- so we don't waste anyone's 3 time here -- 4 Building Department, 5 (unintelligible) order, but I have a 6 question in regards to this case. 7 Since there were no mockup 8 signs on this property visible for the 9 Board prior to the case, is it -- where 10 did we go from here, in terms of 11 ultimately hearing the case? 12 MR. SAVEN: It's the 13 Board's policy that was establish 14 several years about having mockups 15 (unintelligible.) 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: I believe 17 we he should table it. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 19 Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would 21 like to get comments on the record, 22 because I think that this case is 23 extravagant, and I would like to have 24 it on record. So when the Petitioner
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1 comes back, it's more reasonable of a 2 request. 3 But, whatever you guys want 4 to do. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 6 Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: I agree 8 with you, Madam Chair. There are no 9 mockups. We had no way of knowing what 10 this is going to look like. And it 11 would be my recommendation that we 12 table this until the mockups have been 13 set up for the for the meeting next 14 month. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Hold 16 that thought right there. 17 Petitioner? 18 MR. MURRAY: I'm here. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there a 20 reason why there were no mockups set up? 21 MR. MURRAY: Actually, 22 there should be mockups now. What 23 happened was, we got -- there's none 24 now -- because we, trying to coordinate
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1 with our sign installers, we got a 2 notice of last week -- have the mockups 3 by Wednesday, last Wednesday. 4 And we (unintelligible) to 5 try and get those things done and put 6 up there so you could see them by last 7 Wednesday. It didn't get done. We 8 were trying our darnest to keep them 9 up. And I was told by my sign folks 10 that they were up Friday. But I'll 11 obviously take your words for it that 12 they're not. 13 I just want to make sure, 14 for the record, that you understand 15 that we tried our darnest to get those 16 things up (unintelligible.) But I 17 understand the Board's decision to 18 table it. I completely understand it's 19 part of your policy; and I'm not going 20 to argue with you about that at all. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. 22 MR. MURRAY: I just want to 23 make that a point of record. We tried 24 to get those things up.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: With all due 2 respect, Mr. Murray, this Board cannot make a 3 decision without seeing the signs; and these why 4 we have those rules, and we -- we're not going to 5 bend those rules for any Petitioner. 6 We're very consistent, and 7 those are the reasons why the rules are 8 as they There. 9 MR. MURRAY: Right. And -- 10 I'm sorry. Go ahead. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In regards 12 not number of variances that you're requesting, 13 I'm going to suggest that the Board table this. 14 I'm not going to follow Member Brennan's 15 suggestion, because I do not want to talk about 16 something I can't see. 17 But I would heed caution in 18 a big term on the number of signs that 19 you're requesting. 20 MR. MURRAY: I also want to 21 -- I'm sorry -- I want to make a point 22 of clarification. This notice contains 23 -- signs I, J, K, those are some pole 24 signs. They're enter and exit;
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1 drive-through pharmacy. We're not 2 actually seeking variances on those. 3 We sought permits for those, but were 4 denied. We're not seeking variances on 5 those signs. 6 We're seeking variances on 7 three groups of signs, the primary wall 8 signs; the ancillary wall signs; and 9 then we want a monument sign, if 10 possible. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Then 12 at this point, I think we should table it, and 13 you can neaten up your presentation a little bit, 14 and be ready for us next month. 15 MR. MURRAY: Okay. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 17 Members? 18 Member Fischer? 19 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd like 20 to make a Motion that in Case Number, 21 05-024, be tabled to the -- 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: May. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: -- May, 24 2005 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting,
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1 due to mockups not being installed. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 4 moved and seconded. 5 Any further discussion? 6 MR. GILLIAM: Madam Chair? 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Gilliam? 8 MR. GILLIAM: I'd like to just 9 make a suggestion. I don't know if there's 10 anyone's that here in the audience tonight that 11 maybe we can hear specifically a comment on this 12 case. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good idea. 14 MR. GILLIAM: If there is, I'd 15 make a suggestion that you open up the floor for 16 comments from those individuals, just so they 17 might not have to come back. 18 It maybe a non-issue. I'm 19 not sure. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there 21 anyone in the audience at this point that wishes 22 to make comment in the matter of this case? 23 Come on down. 24 MR. SCHEROPHSKI: I don't
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1 think it will be necessary from your 2 comments. 3 My name is Mark 4 Scherophski. I'm from -- I'm here 5 representing Edward Rose and Sons. We 6 manage multiple large apartment 7 communities right in the area; 8 including the Portsmith Apartment, 9 which is the property directly to the 10 east. 11 And basically, we'd just 12 like to place our opposition to the 13 number of signs that are being 14 requested. The sign Ordinances are in 15 place for a reason; to keep up the 16 appearance of the community. Novi's a 17 highly desirable address; and we'd like 18 to -- like it to stay that way, also. 19 And a couple -- I know you 20 guys aren't reviewing the case, but a 21 couple of points just particular to 22 this. There's a CVS directly down the 23 street to the east that's existed for 24 multiple years, with one -- with
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1 basically one CVS Pharmacy sign out 2 front. 3 Also, just driving around 4 today, I think I drove passed four or 5 five brand new convenience stores, 6 similar to this -- two Wallgreen's and 7 two or three CVS Pharmacies, of which 8 did not have any of the additional 9 ancillary signs, other than the CVS or 10 Wallgreen's signs. 11 And the two things with 12 those, the parking lots were all full; 13 and the appearance of those buildings 14 was far superior to what I think the 15 Petitioner is proposing here; which is 16 similar, I think, to what's directly 17 across the street, the Rite-Aid 18 Pharmacy that's in Wixom, across the 19 street from this property. Of which, 20 the number of signs is almost to a 21 ridiculous number. 22 There's -- I think 10 to 15 23 signs on the Building, of which is 24 definitely, in our opinion, overkill
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1 for the one building. 2 That's really all I wanted 3 to say. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 5 you. 6 Is there anyone else in the 7 audience that wishes to make comment in 8 regards to this case? 9 Seeing none, Member Fischer 10 is making or has made a Motion and a 11 second. 12 There's no further 13 discussion. 14 Gail, please call the roll. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member 16 Fischer? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 24 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member 2 Gronachan? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member 5 Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 8 six to zero. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We'll 10 see you next month. 11 MR. MURRAY: Thank you very 12 much. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 14 15 Calling Case Number, 16 05-025, filed by Darko Martinovski -- 17 sorry -- for 47255 11 Mile. 18 Is the Petitioner here? 19 At this time, we'll hold 20 this case until to the last to see if 21 the Petitioner is going to arrive. 22 23 Moving to our next case. 24 05-026, filed by Harry Chawney with
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1 Hampton Place LLC? 2 Man, what happened? 3 Is Mr. Chawney here? 4 Board Members, we will move 5 that case to the end. 6 7 And then we will move to 8 Case Number 14, which is Case, 05-027, 9 filed by Jason Levy for 1525 East Lake 10 Drive, located at east of East Lake 11 Drive, and north of 13 Mile Road. 12 And you are? 13 MR. GORDON: Good evening. 14 I'm Mike Gordon from the firm, Wycki, 15 Gordon, (unintelligible) Architects. 16 I'm the architect for the project; and 17 we're located in Royal Oak, Michigan. 18 With me, I have the 19 homeowners, Jason and Kim Levy. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 21 Are you going to speak on behalf of your case -- 22 MR. GORDON: Yes. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- or as just 24 the architect?
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1 MR. GORDON: Just the 2 architect. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would 4 you please raise your right hand and be sworn in 5 by our secretary. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 7 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 8 truth regarding case, 05-027? 9 MR. GORDON: Yes. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 11 MR. GORDON: You're 12 welcome. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 14 proceed. 15 MR. GORDON: Okay. First 16 of all, we've had several discussions 17 with the community, and tonight on 18 docket, there's eight variances that we 19 are requesting. We are willing to 20 forego three of them, and I'm going to 21 go through the eight; and one of them 22 will also be reduced by giving up three 23 of those variances. 24 The first variance is for
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1 the front yard; that is an existing 2 setback from the existing structure. 3 There was some of the structure, we've 4 determined it to be of sound 5 construction. 6 The existing home consists 7 of had a kitchen, living room, several 8 bathrooms, and two bedrooms above; of 9 which we are salvaging all of that in 10 the construction. We're remodeling a 11 portion of it to make a hallway 12 connecting to one of the wings. The 13 kitchen will remain; the stairway will 14 remain, and the bulk of that structure 15 will remain as is. We're going to 16 remove the garage in the back in the 17 extension. 18 The required set yard, the 19 existing house, again, is one and a 20 half feet, as existing. If you look at 21 the lot, we're requesting that, but 22 that is what's there. The addition is 23 actually four to five feet off the 24 property line; because the property
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1 line is going at an angle. So even 2 though we're matching the line of the 3 house, the farther back you go, the 4 more the setback. And we felt that a 5 four to five foot setback allows for 6 the maintenance of the new structure. 7 So in reality, would give a decent 8 amount of space there. 9 The other variance for the 10 side yard was, we were asking for 15 11 feet. We're asking for a one foot 12 variance there. We're willing to 13 forego that, so we can get the 15 feet 14 on that side, which then reduces the 15 aggregate total request from 9 6 down 16 to 8 6. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Excuse me for 18 one second. Because the Petitioner is already 19 changing all of this now from that one side -- 20 Building Department? 21 MR. SAVEN: If the request 22 is less than the variance, this is a 23 request that I believe is not a 24 problem, as long as we get it into the
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1 record. 2 MR. GORDON: (Interposing.) 3 (unintelligible.) Thank you. 4 MR. SAVEN: ( 5 Unintelligible.) We'd have to 6 readvertise. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 8 You may proceed. 9 MR. GORDON: Okay. 10 Again when I left off, the 11 total side yard would now be eight and 12 a half feet, for the aggregate total of 13 the two. 14 The proposed lot coverage 15 is 39 percent. Now we feel that this 16 is necessary because we can't have a 17 basement in this location. We want to 18 create a three-car garage for the 19 adequate amount storage. 20 If -- and the owner owns 21 the property on the opposite side of 22 East Lake Drive -- that property that 23 they own cannot be built on, and it 24 cannot be used in the calculation. If
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1 we could use that property in the 2 calculation, for the house, we're at 3 the 25 percent. With the covered 4 porch, we're at 27 and a half. 5 If we could use that in the 6 calculation, but we can't. The 7 aggregate total of property that they 8 do own -- if you average it over the 9 two parcels -- we would have that -- 10 not -- it would not be that excessive; 11 and we feel it's appropriate. 12 The rear yard setback of 15 13 feet, we were looking at the 14 development pattern of the community, 15 and there's many homes in the area that 16 have that setback along the rear 17 property line. We feel it's 18 appropriate to put the garage to the 19 rear of the property. There's limited 20 parking along this street; and there's 21 limited access. 22 We wanted to have as much 23 parking available with the cars 24 covered, cars indoors, etc., and all
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1 the equipment that goes with the lake 2 front property. 3 There's a porch setback 4 request that we're willing to forego of 5 the porch. We will not put the porch 6 on the front of the house. That is not 7 desired this evening. 8 Further, the garage -- I 9 think it was a miscalculation on our 10 part -- the City came up 860 square 11 feet, and we're willing to reduce the 12 garage to the maximum 850, with 13 (unintelligible.) We're reducing the 14 aggregate total of the request from 15 eight down to five. 16 I think the hardship in 17 this case to the existing viable 18 structure, we want to maintain and work 19 with it. And as you can see from the 20 rendering that we have here, we've 21 blended the architecture with that. 22 The existing structure is here. This 23 is the addition coming across the 24 property. We've given it adequate --
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1 the 15 feet over here, we'll reduce 2 this a foot, which gives us adequate 3 space for a drive. 4 The actual -- this is going 5 to be setback farther than this. It's 6 the trawl of this that matches that. 7 The balance of the architecture is 8 somewhat removed and somewhat farther 9 setback; but we do not go beyond the 10 original footprint, which will not 11 impact visual lines of sight down the 12 street; more so than the existing 13 structure. 14 It's a unique lake front 15 lot. It's usable, but viable property 16 out to the road has limited us. 17 There's no basement. The structure is, 18 again, viable, but there's no basement. 19 We wanted to create as much storage 20 space and as much living space. And as 21 you can see, the family is a growing 22 family. They want to maintain in this 23 area. They have family and friends and 24 relative in the area, and they want to
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1 stay here. 2 We feel these are 3 reasonable, and we are blending with 4 the patterns of development in the 5 area. 6 If you have any questions, 7 we'd be willing to, ask the homeowners, 8 swear them in, too. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 10 Is there anyone in the 11 audience that wishes to make comment in 12 regards this case? 13 Seeing none, there were 48 14 notices sent; one approval, one 15 objection. 16 Building Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: Just to point 18 out, on the comment that was made 19 earlier on about the property across 20 the street -- on the lake side, that 21 maximum square footage that would be 22 allowed would be a 10 by 10 shed on the 23 lakeside, and certain location 24 requirements would be necessary
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1 regarding where that placement is. So 2 the maximum that they could have on the 3 lake side is a hundred square feet. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 Board Members? 6 Member Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Was there 8 someone from the audience? 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Are you part 10 of the Petitioner or are you a neighbor? 11 MR. Levy: I'm a neighbor. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Come 13 on down. 14 MR. LEVY: Let me make that 15 correction. I'm a neighbor, but I'm 16 also a relative. I'm his brother. I 17 own the piece of property next door. 18 Ruben Levy. The piece of 19 property just to the north, which is 20 right next to that, I own that piece of 21 property. And being the homeowner 22 there, having that piece of property, I 23 have absolutely no problem with what's 24 going on in the additions that they're
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1 looking to do. 2 I think we're all aware of 3 a lot of the houses up and down in that 4 area. The piece of property that was 5 next door to that probably had two of 6 the -- at less one of the worst houses 7 up and down East Lake. I ended up 8 making an investment on that property, 9 purchasing that; and taking that house 10 down. 11 I think that's definitely 12 enhancing, and that's what a lot of 13 people have doing up and down the lake 14 there -- enhancing the property value. 15 Also for the other neighbors who live 16 around there, it's a lot nicer now, 17 because you don't have to have these 18 eyesores, vacant houses, and the 19 problems that are sitting out there. 20 So I'm fully for this, not 21 only development, but other 22 developments of people who are doing to 23 the houses that are helping to increase 24 the value -- not only to the property
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1 around there, but also for the entire 2 City. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 4 you. 5 Is will anyone else at 6 audience that wishes to make comment in 7 this case? 8 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair, if 9 I may, I did have one additional 10 comment. If the Board -- 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Just a 12 second. Now, there's somebody else. 13 You guys need to like raise 14 your hand and just come on down when we 15 call, okay? 16 Come on down. 17 Hi. 18 MR. MATHIS: My name is 19 Phillip Mathis, and I live right to the 20 south of the Levys. And I have no 21 objections to what they're building. I 22 think it's greatly enhancing the area, 23 and I'm all for it. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Great.
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1 MR. SIGLY: My name is Jack 2 Sigly. I live at 1603 East Lake, just 3 south of Jason, also. Actually he's 4 enhancing the area. I agree with 5 everything's he's doing on this piece 6 of property. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 8 Anyone else? 9 Okay. 10 I'm sorry. 11 Mr. Saven? 12 MR. SAVEN: Just to point 13 out, if it's the Board's desire to 14 approve the variance, that I just want 15 to point out that this is new 16 construction; that is part of the 17 renovation of the existing building. 18 But there's also ceratin Code 19 requirements, Building Code 20 Requirements, that have to be met, 21 based upon the (unintelligible), the 22 property line, opening penetrations, 23 (unintelligible.) 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank
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1 you. 2 Board Members? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Can you do 4 the objection, and who that is? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Our first 6 concern is it would impact financially and 7 esthetically these various will have on our 8 property. We are one of the properties that back 9 up to Mr. Levy's. Also is the request for one 10 lot or two? 11 It appears that Mr. Levy 12 has two lots. With two lots, it would 13 seem that much -- that such severe 14 variances would not be necessary. We 15 would hope that these variances would 16 not -- are not created, until we have 17 more information regarding the impact 18 and necessity. 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Signed? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Who is it 21 from? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Michael and 24 Artholynn Ouelette, at 1528 Paramount.
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: And 2 Paramount would be behind? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Behind the 4 Petitioner. Their property backs up to Levy's. 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'm still 6 on board here? 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yeah. We're 8 waiting for you. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. 10 Sorry. It's a big house. Obviously, 11 my -- my observation was concerned with 12 the garage and that rear yard 13 setback -- and maybe that's this 14 Petitioner's -- the one that's most 15 effected -- it would have been nice if 16 he could have been hear to discuss it. 17 Sure, there's not basements 18 probably in any of these homes around 19 the lakes. That's one of the things 20 you give up with you live on a lake. 21 But I guess I -- it troubles me to look 22 at a lot of new construction, even 23 though some of it is reconstruction, 24 but a lot of new construction where we
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1 are -- that extensive of a lot 2 coverage. 3 Lot coverage was one thing 4 that I had as an observation and 5 secondly was this rear yard setback. 6 And I'll just leave that has comments 7 of concern on my part, and let others 8 make their points. 9 Thanks. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 Member Canup? 12 MEMBER CANUP: What is the 13 total square footage of this house? 14 MR. GORDON: I don't have 15 that handy. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 3200? 17 MR. GORDON: 3200, well, 18 plus the garage. The garage was not 19 counted in that. I was trying to 20 verify -- 21 MEMBER CANUP: Well, that's 22 an awful lot of square footage for that 23 small of a lot. 3200 square feet is a 24 pretty good sized house.
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1 Don, do you know what the 2 average square foot of homes are in 3 Novi right now? 4 MR. SAVEN: The average 5 square foot? 6 MEMBER CANUP: Right. 7 MR. SAVEN: Probably about 8 25, 25 to 26. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I stand to be 10 corrected. The total square footage, Member 11 Canup, is 3,959, garage. Is 860 -- 12 MEMBER CANUP: What did you 13 say to me? Did you say 3,900? 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3,959. 15 MEMBER CANUP: That's why 16 they have a over foot count on the 17 property. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Garage is 19 860. 20 MEMBER CANUP: I think 21 that's the whole thing here, is the 22 (unintelligible) trying to overbuild on 23 that particular sized lot. I don't 24 think there's a problem with our
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1 Ordinance, especially in lot coverage. 2 I think basically what we have here is 3 just somebody trying to build too large 4 of a home in too small of a lot. 5 MR. GORDON: Can I address 6 that partially? 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Hang on. The 8 Board needs to talk right now. 9 MEMBER CANUP: That is the 10 extent of my comments. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 12 Anybody else? 13 Member Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Just to 15 clarify, the front yard is existing as 16 currently -- 17 MR. GORDON: Correct. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: And so is 19 one side yard? 20 MR. GORDON: Correct. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Which means 22 that the aggregate is, as well? 23 MR. GORDON: No. Because -- 24 right --
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 2 MR. GORDON: We used the 15 foot 3 minimum, and then used the -- it would have 15 4 and eight or whatever. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Right. 6 Yeah, looking at some of 7 these -- they're trying to work with us, taking 8 away some of those, but 14 percent lot coverage 9 is quite a bit of a variance. I understand, and 10 I can see the point of view of the property 11 across; but, that doesn't allow for saturation on 12 the other side. 13 Where is this water going to go 14 for this 14 percent. I'd be concerned with that 15 much of a variance for the lot coverage, just 16 because of the run off and what-not. 17 Thank you, Madam Chair. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: One or two 20 percent -- this 14 percent is a major 21 number, and a 4,000 -- 4,000 square 22 foot home; that's what -- that's almost 23 50 percent more than the average home 24 in Novi, on a considerably smaller lot,
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1 60 foot lot; 16 in the front and 65 in 2 the back. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I think 4 you're getting a gist of where the Board is going 5 and I -- whenever we get this point, especially 6 on new construction, I always give the Petitioner 7 an opportunity to hear us out. 8 This is new construction. 9 This is where you can start and make 10 some charges. I concur with the other 11 Board Members, that this is overbuild 12 of this lot. There's specific reasons 13 why these Ordinances are set, 14 especially at that time end of town. 15 And I feel that this drawing needs to 16 go back to the drawing table, and it 17 needs to be relooked at. Because I 18 feel that the request for these 19 variances are in excess. 20 And if you can come back 21 and prove to us that this cannot be 22 built with anything lesser of a 23 variance, then this Board will be more 24 than happy to hear you out.
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1 So at this point, would you 2 like to table the case? 3 MR. GORDON: Can I make a 4 comment toward this at all? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 6 MR. GORDON: Yeah. This 7 is -- and it was pointed out that this 8 is actually two buildable lots that we 9 are combining, and we are building 10 across the two lots. If these lots 11 were split into two buildable sites -- 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You need to 13 use the microphone so they can hear you at home. 14 MR. GORDON: I'm sorry. 15 Okay. If we divided these 16 into two buildable lots -- which we 17 can, because the house is presently 18 sitting on one lot. We've chosen to 19 expand over it -- I could build 1600 20 square foot houses to Code, that's 3200 21 square feet on two separate lots. If I 22 got a minor variance of maybe 30 23 percent lot coverage, I could build 24 4,000 square feet, 2,000 houses --
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1 2,000 square foot houses on two lots, 2 and be well under the average in this 3 community. 4 So if you look at it from 5 that standpoint, we're building what 6 could be constructed -- if the 7 homeowner chooses not to do this and 8 walk away from it -- we could actually 9 build two, 2,000 square foot homes. And 10 I think that would be a reasonable 11 approach. It would be a minor variance 12 to the lot coverage. 13 And even without a 14 variance, I can build 3200 square feet, 15 right now, as it stands. So I don't 16 think going up to that aggregate total 17 is that far of a departure. If you 18 look at it from that standpoint, it 19 seems more reasonable. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: However, sir, 21 it is this Board's position to always checkout 22 when a lesser variance can -- if a lesser 23 variance can exist. And in this case, those 24 issues have not been addressed. So if you want
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1 to present two houses that can be built without 2 variances, by all means. 3 But this particular house 4 that's in front of us, it's this 5 Board's opinion that these are 6 excessive variances; and therefore, my 7 suggestion -- instead of taking a 8 denial from the Board -- is that you 9 table it and take a look at it and have 10 it redrawn. 11 MR. GORDON: My homeowners 12 will take it under advisement and table 13 it at this point. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 15 Mr. Saven? 16 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair, I 17 don't want to mislead the Board or 18 anything along this line in terms of -- 19 in terms of these two lots that he does 20 have, there is a provision in the 21 Ordinance that does talk about -- 22 there's non-conforming lots. You have 23 to have at least 60 foot of frontage. 24 They have to be under the same
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1 ownership. So you can build on one 2 lot. That's what the Ordinance states. 3 So, I mean, when taking 4 into consideration all the other 5 aspects of the Schedule of Regulations, 6 the Ordinances, the setback 7 requirements still have to be met; the 8 lot coverage still has to be met. But 9 you must have at least 60 foot of 10 frontage and -- if you're combining the 11 lots, non-conforming, and meet the 12 setback requirements; based upon the 13 lots being in the same ownership. 14 If it was an individual lot 15 then, it still has to meet the setback 16 requirements and the lot coverages, 17 which this gentleman (unintelligible) 18 based on the fact that it's two lots; 19 they're the same ownership, 60 foot 20 requirement; at that was a condition of 21 that non-conforming provision of the 22 Ordinance. So that's what we've got. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any further 24 comments?
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1 I'm sorry. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Without a 3 variance, you can't meet the percentage 4 variance. 5 MR. SAVEN: That's 6 basically it. He needs to take a look 7 at the percentage. And I think he did 8 reduce the size in some areas of 9 certain things. But what I'm gathering 10 from the Board, is you want to see 11 other stuff done, too. So -- 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So at this 13 time, you had like to table the case? 14 MR. GORDON: Correct. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 16 All those in favor of 17 tabling Case Number, 05-027, filed by 18 Jason Levy until May of 2005, say, aye? 19 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All opposed? 21 None. 22 We'll see you next month. 23 Okay. We'll go now to Case 24 Number, 05-028, filed by Tracey
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1 Shipley. 2 Is the Petitioner here? 3 Is Case Number 05-028 4 present? 5 Board Members, we have 6 another case that Petitioner is not 7 present. 8 Which brings us to our last 9 case this evening. At this time I will 10 ask the Board's permission to recuse 11 myself. It is Case Number 05-022. And 12 I will recuse myself from this case. 13 Anyone's -- all those in 14 favor say, aye. 15 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And at this 17 time, Member Canup will take over the Chair. 18 Would you like to come down 19 here and take the case, please? 20 MEMBER CANUP: Just pass it 21 down. 22 23 MEMBER CANUP: Okay. Case 24 Number, 05-022, the Petitioner is
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1 present. 2 And sir, would you -- 3 MR. HARRINGTON: I will. 4 James Harrington, 2411 Novi 5 Road, Suite 201, Novi, Michigan, 6 representing Janet Thurber, who is the 7 Petitioner this evening. 8 I'll make it short and 9 sweet. The night is late. Mrs. 10 Thurber would like -- Miss Thurber 11 would like purchase the property, which 12 a variance was granted on eight years 13 ago. And the effect of the variance 14 granted then, which were dimensional 15 variances, allowed a horse or horses to 16 be kept and maintained on the property. 17 Miss Thurber has a horse. 18 The horse's name is Bubba. She would 19 like to keep Bubba on the property. 20 And the first question I had when this 21 case was brought to my attention, was 22 well, was the original variance made 23 particular to the Applicant -- and not 24 only was it made particular to the
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1 Applicant, but when I sat up there, it 2 was my suggestion that it be made 3 particular to the Applicant. 4 I'm not convinced whether a 5 specific restriction to an Applicant 6 applies or is even legal with respect 7 to a dimensional variance. If that's 8 the Board's sense this evening, or 9 Mr. Gillam thinks that that can be 10 done -- my client really wants to be 11 able to keep Bubba on site. And if you 12 want to make the use of the horse 13 variance specific to Mis Thurber, 14 that's fine with us. 15 We are aware of one letter, 16 which appears to be an objection filed 17 by Mr. Holgren, which in fact, 18 supports -- "I consider the horse as an 19 added bonus to living in this area. 20 Would like to see continued use of 21 horses on the land". He does make a 22 couple of comments. One about 23 lighting. Mrs. Thurber would probably 24 not run her garage light or barn light
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1 all night long, because of expense 2 purposes. But I don't think that's an 3 appropriate condition of a variance. 4 If the Board wants to go there, we can. 5 As to horse stuff on site, 6 those barns should be cleaned out 7 weekly, anyway; or more often. Ms. 8 Thurber has no problem with that. But 9 again, I don't think the City needs to 10 be in the inspection business or 11 continuous supervision of what horses 12 are doing out there. 13 The continued use of this 14 sight to have a horse, is absolutely 15 consistent with the Garfield Road area. 16 I drove that today. Eight years ago 17 when I suggested it would be made 18 particular to this specific applicant, 19 I wasn't sure then what the nature of 20 the area would be, if and when it 21 changed ownership. 22 I drove it from Nine Mile 23 to Eight Mile today, it's still very 24 rural. You've got some big houses
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1 coming in. Presumably at some point, 2 they all will be big houses. But 3 there's other people storing horses and 4 it looks like dogs and cats and 5 chickens and maybe even some other 6 animals out there, too. I don't know, 7 but I saw that this afternoon when I 8 was out there. 9 All Ms. Thurber wants to do 10 is have a new home for Bubba. 11 And we request your 12 approval of the variance. 13 MEMBER CANUP: Thank you 14 very much. 15 Is there anyone in the 16 audience that would like testify in 17 this case? 18 If there's no one in the 19 audience that would like to 20 participate, we'll go to the Building 21 Department. 22 Building Department, do you 23 have any comments? 24 MR. SAVEN: Just basically,
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1 it was to the Applicant, the variance 2 was to the Applicant, and itas an issue 3 of a dimensional variance for the barn. 4 MEMBER CANUP: Board 5 Members? 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Notices, 7 sir. 8 MEMBER CANUP: We had seven 9 approvals sent in and one objection. 10 We had 15 notices that were mailed out. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 12 MEMBER CANUP: You asked for the 13 letters, right? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Right. 15 MEMBER CANUP: Yeah, we had 15 16 notices that were mailed. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 18 MEMBER CANUP: We had seven 19 approvals -- 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 21 MEMBER CANUP: -- they were 22 responded to; and we had one objection. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 24 MEMBER CANUP: Board Members,
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1 comments? 2 MEMBER BAUER: No problem. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Is there any 4 writing on the objection? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Let's see. They 6 ask resident's objections. Would like to know -- 7 would like more info on the number of horses and 8 planned use of the barn; how long, how many -- 9 then there's a little (unintelligible) on there 10 and it's sign by Scott T. Hoag on 26850 Garfield, 11 north of -- 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 13 Can I ask the Building 14 Department? 15 Has this property received any 16 violations -- 17 MR. AMOLSCH: No, sir. None that 18 I'm aware of. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: -- for horse 20 stuff or anything -- 21 MR. AMOLSCH: No, sir. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: And what is the 23 legal limit, what is the (unintelligible) 24 recommendation as far as the Petitioner is
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1 concerned, about running with the land. I know 2 I've asked this question before, but variances 3 running with the land, as opposed to conditioning 4 it to one Petitioner. 5 MR. GILLIAM: I think I share in 6 some of Mr. Harrington's concerns, with all due 7 respect to Mr. Harrington having been the Chair 8 (unintelligible.) At this point in time, I share 9 of his concerns with tying this type of a 10 variance to this particular user. I think what 11 we are talking about is more of the nature of the 12 use; not who owns the property and who's engaged 13 in the use. 14 I think those are the more 15 appropriate questions. I think maybe a 16 more appropriate condition might be to 17 restrict the use to one horse on the 18 property; as oppose to trying to say 19 that it's applicable to this individual 20 only. 21 So my suggestion would be 22 not to go down the same road the Zoning 23 Board went down before. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: I don't
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1 want to go down (unintelligible.) 2 I have a couple more 3 questions. 4 Is there any plans on 5 getting Bubba a friend? 6 MR. HARRINGTON: I think at 7 various times, by permission of the 8 neighbors, I think there has been use 9 of adjacent pasture for more than one 10 horse, but as to Ms. Thurber's 11 property, she has one horse, and the 12 Ordinance permits one horse per two 13 acre parcel. And that is what she 14 would be doing. 15 As to the continued 16 presence of other horses, if there is 17 like an Ordinance issue, that's not 18 necessarily Mrs. Thurber's control, 19 next door on the adjacent pasture. I 20 think it's an issue (unintelligible) 21 City would probably insure that those 22 horses are removed. But, Ms. Thurber 23 will have one horse. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: All right.
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1 MR. HARRINGTON: Or, Bubba's 2 successor, but there's only one. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: I have no 4 concerns as of right now. Especially 5 given the variance and the -- how many 6 horses the Petitioner is allowed. 7 (Unintelligible) just keep the horse 8 taken care of and the conditions. My 9 only question and concern on the Motion 10 would be to put a condition that it's 11 not for business purposes. I would 12 like to see that, as long as that's 13 agreeable with the Board. 14 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 15 MR. GILLIAM: That would be 16 appropriate, if the Board sees fit. 17 MEMBER CANUP: Comments 18 from other Board Members? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: You want 20 some definition on business as what, a 21 riding stable or renting out or 22 boarding? 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Riding, 24 turn it around and say for personal use
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1 only. 2 MEMBER CANUP: If you 3 restrict to one horse or two horses. I 4 wouldn't have a problem with two 5 horses. I could see how -- you got a 6 female and she has a colt or foal, 7 whatever it is -- another horse, a 8 little one, then you have two. And I 9 wouldn't have a problem with saying a 10 maximum of two horses. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: And that 12 would be agreeable to me. 13 MEMBER CANUP: And that 14 would pretty much limit it to not going 15 into the boarding business or -- 16 MEMBER FISCHER: That's 17 exactly what I was trying to go for. I 18 would also like to point out -- 19 MEMBER CANUP: You know, you 20 should make a Motion to that effect. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: And you 22 know what, I'm going to go ahead and 23 do that. 24 MEMBER CANUP: That sounds
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1 like a good idea. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: With the 3 Chairman's recommendation. 4 I move that in Case Number, 5 05-022, filed by Janet Thurber, that 6 the Board approve the variance as 7 requested, due to lot size and 8 configuration, as well as to condition 9 it, to no more than two horses to use 10 the barn. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Can I make 13 a friendly amendment? 14 For non-commercial use. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: If that's 16 agreeable with the Board? 17 I accept It. 18 MEMBER CANUP: Okay. Do we 19 have a second on the Motion? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, we do. 21 MEMBER CANUP: Okay. We 22 have a second on the Motion. 23 Any discussion on the 24 Motion?
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1 Gail, you can call the 2 roll, I guess. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member 4 Fischer? 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 7 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member 9 Brennan? 10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 12 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member 14 Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 17 5 to zero. 18 MR. HARRINGTON: Thank you. 19 MEMBER CANUP: Your request 20 for a variance from this Boards has 21 been granted. Good for another 10 22 years. 23 MEMBER CANUP: Yes, sir. 24 MR. CHAWNEY: Hi. I
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1 apologize for being late. 2 MEMBER CANUP: And which 3 case were you, sir? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Chawney. 5 MR. CHAWNEY: Case Number 6 13, 05-026. 7 MEMBER CANUP: All right. 8 One moment and our Chairman will be 9 back and we'll resume the meeting. 10 11 12 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We 14 have Mr. Chawney; is that correct? 15 MR. CHAWNEY: Yes. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 17 Sorry for the delay, Mr. 18 Chawney. You're here in regards to an 19 extension for your sign? 20 MR. CHAWNEY: Yes, please. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Please 22 present your case. 23 You were sworn in by our 24 secretary?
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1 MR. CHAWNEY: No. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Please raise 3 your right hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Do you 5 solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 6 truth regarding case, 05-026? 7 MR. CHAWNEY: Yes, I do. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 9 MR. CHAWNEY: We have a 10 construction sign for phase two of 11 Hampton Woods over in Novi Road, just 12 off of Ten Mile Road. And I believe 13 the Ordinance expired and I'm just 14 looking to the Board to extend it. 15 Construction during the 16 winter season, we slowed down a bit. 17 We had some bad weather; and the 18 construction of the road has also taken 19 away our (unintelligible) signage. It 20 moves around a lot, depending on what 21 Oakland County does. 22 But I'm hoping the Board 23 will grant me the variance to -- 24 permission to keep the sign for another
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1 year, or whatever time duration you 2 wish. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 4 There is obviously no one 5 else left in the audience. 6 There were 29 notices sent, 7 no approvals, no objections. 8 Building Department? 9 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 11 Members? 12 MEMBER CANUP: Sounds like a 13 reasonable request. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 15 Is that a Motion? 16 MEMBER CANUP: That's a 17 Motion that we grant a variance for an 18 additional one year period in this 19 particular case. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 22 moved and seconded. 23 Any further discussion in 24 regards to the Motion?
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1 Seeing none, Gail, would 2 you please call the roll. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 4 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member 6 Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 9 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member 11 Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member 14 Gronachan? 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member 17 Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 20 six to zero. 21 A. 22 MR. CHAWNEY: Thank you very 23 much. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good luck to
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1 you. 2 3 Are the Petitioner's here 4 for Case, 05-028, Tracey Shipley? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Madam 6 Chair? 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 8 Brennan? 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: I -- 10 unless our -- 11 Gail, have you -- did you 12 hear from this party today? 13 GAIL BACKUS: I did not. 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Gail, did you 16 hear from 05-025 Darko Martinovski? 17 GAIL BACKUS: No. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: We have 19 historically -- with the exception of 20 weather conditions -- we have 21 historically denied variance requests 22 for those parties that do not show nor 23 give the City any notice that they 24 would not attend.
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1 I believe that we should 2 continue that position. It would be my 3 recommendation that both cases be 4 denied the variance requested as 5 submitted. 6 MEMBER CANUP: Is that a 7 Motion? 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 9 MEMBER CANUP: I second 10 that Motion. 11 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 13 Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: I guess, 15 I'm going to have to be a little more 16 sympathetic. I mean, since I've been 17 on the Board, I usually like to give 18 the Petitioner at least a month. We as 19 a Board don't know what could have 20 possibly prevented them from being 21 here. And I would like to at least 22 table it one month. 23 If they aren't here next 24 month, then I'd be willing to support a
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1 Motion like that. Currently, I would 2 like to table these two cases to the 3 next months' meeting, but you can vote 4 on your Motion. 5 Thank you, Madam Chair. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Gail, please 7 call roll. 8 GAIL BACKUS: 9 (Unintelligible.) 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It was a 11 Motion to deny both Cases, 05-028 and 05-025. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 13 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Mr. Brennan? 17 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member 19 Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member 22 Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member
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1 Fischer? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: No. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 4 five to one. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, 6 gentlemen. That concludes this evening's 7 activities. 8 9 We have other matters, and 10 Member Fischer, you had something to 11 add before we deal with the elections. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Well, not 13 necessarily in regards to the 14 elections. However, I would like to 15 comment to the current Chair, for the 16 absolutely phenomenal job that I feel 17 she has done. And the Board got 18 together and decided to chip in and buy 19 you a little present here, just to show 20 our appreciation of your leadership. 21 And I would also like to 22 point out an amazing fete of being the 23 first female chair; to many people's 24 recollection that I have spoken to.
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1 So I hope you enjoy the 2 spring basket, as much I feel we have 3 enjoyed you being chair. 4 Thank you, Madam Chair. 5 We have a card, and I'm 6 kind of missing it right now. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, thank 8 you. I'm overwhelmed. This was not the night to 9 do this. Okay. It's been -- I guess I made my 10 point clear about not wanting to be Chair 11 anymore, despite the fact that it's been a 12 rewarding experience. And I want to thank all of 13 you for your support; and I'm looking forward to 14 becoming just, just a Board Member. 15 I feel like I'm dying or 16 something. All of you gave me support, 17 and I have to encourage other members 18 and all of the people, the residents, 19 to sign-up and become an alternate. 20 And you guys made me cry; 21 that's not easy to do. 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: 23 (Unintelligible) TV tonight. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: No, TV.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So thank you. 2 This is very thoughtful, and I look forward to 3 continuing to serve on the Board as a Board 4 Member, and not the Chair. 5 6 And -- which brings us to 7 elections. So, without any further 8 adieu -- it's late evening. We've got 9 a lot of work done. It's been a great 10 day. 11 I would like to open the 12 floor for nominations, and we are 13 looking for a Chair, a vice chair, and 14 a secretary. 15 We'll first do the Chair. 16 Member Bauer. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. I'd 18 like to nominate Mr. Fischer. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I can second. 20 I will second that nomination. 21 Any other nominations? 22 MEMBER CANUP: I would 23 nominate Mr. Brennan. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there a
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1 second? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So we 4 have Justin Fisher and Frank Brennan as members 5 for Chairmanship. 6 Gail, would you please call 7 the roll for Mr. Fisher. This is to 8 vote for Mr. Fisher as Chair. 9 GAIL BACKUS: I'm going to 10 need some help. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Just go 12 ahead and call roll. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Do I have to 14 go any order? 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Okay. 17 Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Brennan? 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 23 MEMBER CANUP: No. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member
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1 Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member 4 Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member 7 Fischer? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Okay. Passes 10 four to two. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So at 12 that point will now be -- we would not do a vote; 13 is that correct, because we have four votes at 14 this point? 15 MR. GILLIAM: Madam Chair, 16 that's correct. You have a Chair. So you'd move 17 to vice chair. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 19 Congratulations. See what 20 happens when you present flowers. 21 You think everybody likes 22 this job, wait. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: I know me 24 and Gail will become much more close.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Oh, yeah. 2 And my number's going to become unlisted as of 3 tomorrow. 4 Okay. Now we have vice 5 chair, and I would like to open up the 6 floor for vice chairmanship. 7 Are there any nominations? 8 Member Canup? 9 MEMBER CANUP: I would 10 nominate Mr. Brennan. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 13 moved and seconded. 14 Is there any other 15 nominations for vice chair? 16 Seeing none, Gail, please 17 call the roll. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yeah, I can 23 vote for me. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yeah.
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Go ahead, go 2 ahead. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Go ahead. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member 7 Gronachan? 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member 10 Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member 13 Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Passes six to 16 zero. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And now we 18 need a nomination for secretary. 19 I open the floor for 20 nominations for secretary. 21 MEMBER CANUP: You would 22 make an excellent secretary. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I was 24 previously secretary? I keep ending up back in
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1 that role. I have no objections. I will -- 2 We'll pass? 3 MEMBER CANUP: I would make 4 a Motion that our past chairman be -- 5 have the secretary -- I'm trying to 6 find the words -- but she's going to be 7 appointed, I guess. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. At 10 that point -- we still do a vote, Gail. 11 Please call the roll. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member 15 Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member 20 Gronachan? 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Can I think 22 about it? 23 Oh, yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: That was yes.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member 3 Sanghvi? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 6 Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Passes six to 9 zero. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 11 Member Gilliam, do you have 12 any comments? Member Gilliam, all 13 right. 14 Mr. Gilliam, do you have 15 any comments? Do you have connections 16 to the air conditioning in this room? 17 MR. GILLIAM: Absolutely not, 18 but it is warm in here. 19 MR. SAVEN: Two issues I 20 want to bring to your attention. 21 Number one, certainly we're getting 22 into this high peak time; a lot 23 activity's starting. We talked about 24 cases that are not coming before us.
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1 There are cases that -- 2 like tonight, we had 16 cases. Okay, 3 and it's the Board's policy that we 4 stay with 15. 5 When we go through the 6 process and we do all the workup and 7 everything and people don't show up -- 8 I mean, there should be something, even 9 from a curtesy standpoint of view, that 10 they notify us and tell us they're not 11 going to be here; something along this 12 line. 13 No offense -- that's a lot 14 work on the staff, within the community 15 here trying to put the cases together 16 or whatever. And It would be just a 17 simple curtesy to say something's going 18 to take place. 19 Likewise, to those people 20 who are conscientious that want to get 21 before the ZBA, I have to postpone them 22 to another month. So that's really 23 putting them in a bad position. I 24 mean, it's your call on what you want
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1 to do and how you go about doing these 2 things. I want you to just bear that 3 in mind for consideration for future 4 cases that do happen to come before 5 you; who do not happen to come before 6 you. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, 8 Mr. Saven, I understand what you're saying, but 9 with all due respect, in the past, the 10 Petitioners have been very good about contacting 11 the Building Department. And if there is anybody 12 watching at home, they need to know that they 13 need to call and work with Gail. 14 In the four years that I've 15 been on the Board, I've never heard 16 people not cooperating. This is kind 17 of a rare occasion -- unless there's 18 been an illness or the weather was 19 really bad; people flying in from -- 20 we've had some instances in sign cases 21 where people have flown in from out of 22 State, and you know, couldn't get in 23 because of the weather. 24 I find it difficult to
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1 believe that these Petitioners are 2 spending this kind of money, doing this 3 kind of paperwork and then don't show, 4 so. 5 MEMBER CANUP: I think 6 there's a case (unintelligible.) 7 Because as Mr. Saven said they did not 8 (unintelligible.) 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Exactly. 10 MEMBER CANUP: And it's 11 getting very costly for somebody to be 12 (unintelligible.) 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Exactly. 14 MEMBER CANUP: They should 15 at least have the curtesy to call our 16 secretary, who has done a tremendous 17 amount of work, notifying the people 18 adjacent, and all the other things she 19 does to go with it; and it's very 20 discourteous and unthoughtful to do 21 that. 22 I think what we did tonight 23 was exactly in order with the 24 discourteousness that was shown to this
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1 Board and our secretary. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: You're 3 right. And I'll bring that up in that 4 light. If you were the Petitioner or 5 if I was the Petitioner that who bumped 6 to May, I would be pretty upset if 7 someone didn't show up; and I could 8 have filled that spot. 9 So I stand corrected, if 10 you will. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In light of 12 that -- making a suggestion, not that Gail needs 13 one more job -- but call the Petitioners the day 14 of the meeting and getting a verbal confirmation 15 that they're coming. 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: No. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The only 18 reason why I'm saying that is this. We could 19 have heard two more cases tonight; and we can 20 help the residents, if we knew that these people 21 were not going to show up. 22 MEMBER CANUP: At what 23 point? 24 MR. SAVEN: You have a
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1 notification process that they're going 2 to have to deal with. 3 BOARD MEMBERS: 4 (Unintelligible.) (Interposing.) 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Woe, woe, 6 woe. 7 MEMBER CANUP: Most of these 8 people are business people 9 (unintelligible.) 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, 11 you're right, but -- 12 MEMBER CANUP: These are not 13 high school kids that we're dealing 14 with; and they should no better than 15 this. They go through the trouble and 16 the expense of petitioning the Board -- 17 okay, okay. 18 Anyway, they go through the 19 trouble and expense of petitioning this 20 board, they should, at least, act 21 courteous. I have nothing more to say 22 on that case, and that's it. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Just a
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1 question. 2 Do we write them letter 3 when we send them out that if they 4 cannot make it, they should notify you 5 in some many days in advance? Maybe we 6 should add that (unintelligible) 7 without notifying us (unintelligible) 8 there will be delay for at least three 9 months. 10 You keep tabling and we 11 keep ordering ourselves and the other 12 people are waiting to come in, are 13 pushed backwards because somebody 14 doesn't show up; (unintelligible) as 15 well. 16 MR. SAVEN: Maybe we have 17 to review the policy. (Interposing.) 18 (Unintelligible.) 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, this 20 is what -- I don't know what the legal 21 situation about putting this kind of 22 thing in that letter, but you have been 23 scheduled to appear before ZBA on some 24 specific date. And if you cannot make
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1 it, please notify us well in advance, 2 so that we can put somebody else in the 3 slot. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That's what 5 I'm saying. If there was some kind of -- yeah. 6 Mr. Gilliam? 7 MR. GILLIAM: I think that would 8 be a good idea to have that kind of language in 9 the application or in whatever forms we have; 10 although I don't think -- if you don't have that 11 language in there, (unintelligible) the problem. 12 I think really there's some obligation upon these 13 Petitioners. They come and they've made the 14 application. They paid the fee, I don't think 15 it's unreasonable to expect that they would take 16 steps to find out when they were supposed to be 17 in front of the Zoning Board, and that they would 18 show up when, they, in fact, were advised they 19 had to be here. 20 So, just a couple other 21 comments. 22 First of all, take for 23 example, the cases that were denied 24 tonight for non-appearance. That
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1 doesn't mean that those individuals 2 can't come in front of the Zoning 3 Board. That just means they're going 4 to have to reapply. They're going to 5 have to pay the fee again. And they'll 6 be put in line with everybody else. 7 And then as to anyone that 8 wasn't able to be here because there 9 was an emergency, say if there was a 10 car accident on the way here or a 11 family member became ill immediately, I 12 would suggest that those individuals 13 submit something in writing to the 14 Building Department; that can be 15 presented to the Zoning Board at the 16 next meeting. 17 If the Zoning Board sees 18 fit, you could bring a Motion for 19 reconsideration as to the denial for 20 non-appearance. 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: We have 22 done exactly that. I think it goes 23 back five or six years ago. There was 24 a no-show. Mr. Harrington was a big
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1 believer in giving denials if you 2 didn't show up. He denied somebody who 3 came back the next month and had a 4 legitimate excuse along those lines. 5 MR. GILLIAM: And then all that 6 would mean is that once you learned if there was 7 a legitimate reason for them not being here, then 8 they would be put on the next agenda, the 9 following month; and they wouldn't have to pay 10 another fee, necessarily. 11 So it's not an absolutely 12 final decision; if you're denying for 13 non-appearance. And again, I don't 14 think it's on unreasonable to put some 15 obligation upon Petitioners -- 16 especially with, as Don's indicated, 17 basically, we have people lining up to 18 get in here. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: We are 20 popular. 21 MR. SAVEN: I just had one 22 other issue. 23 We had a case before us a 24 couple months ago -- about two months
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1 ago -- whereby in the application for 2 the permit, they had found that the 3 survey that they had was incorrect, and 4 they have an accurate survey -- which 5 meant that they were deficient by one 6 foot for their property dimension. 7 Which means that they were 8 six inches off on one side; and six 9 inches off on the other side. I'm 10 sorry, but I have to bring them back. 11 I mean it's a not a big thing. They 12 was one that went on for two months, 13 because with the neighbor 14 (unintelligible) correct with this 15 particular case. It would be wise to 16 -- 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Are they 18 ready to come back to us now? 19 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. You 21 can -- I'm still in charge at this point. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: I think 23 I'm chair elect. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We'll move
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1 them to May, the first case. 2 MR. SAVEN: I have to go 3 through the renotification process on 4 this one, (unintelligible) the accurate 5 survey came across. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 7 Anything else? 8 Alan? 9 MR. AMOLSCH: I'd like to 10 respond to the gentleman who 11 represented CVS that indicated that the 12 items in A through J in the CVS case 13 would not need a variance. They do 14 need a variance (unintelligible) should 15 be brought out at the meeting. 16 Our Ordinance -- 17 (unintelligible) foundation Ordinance, 18 restrictive Ordinance, if the sign's 19 not permitted; it's prohibited. And 20 these signs are not permitted; That's 21 why they are on the agenda. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, okay. 23 Good points. 24 Thank you.
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1 Anybody else? 2 Then I officially adjourn 3 this meeting. 4 Good night. 5 (The meeting was adjourned at 6 9:53 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 4 do hereby certify that I have recorded 5 stenographically the proceedings had and testimony 6 taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and 7 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify 8 that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (150) 9 typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript 10 of my said stenograph notes. 11 12 13 ___________________________ Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter 15 16 April 18, 2005. (Date)
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